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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 849

post #12721 of 27220
Quote:
Originally Posted by moffy View Post

If the Lakers want to perennially exit the playoffs in the first or second round, they should go after Melo.

Melo gets a lot of flack for his playoff experiences (and if you look through my posts, I am not a Melo apologist) but he did take a shitty Denver team, with a shitty coach to the division Finals. And with the Knicks, the last two years, he has been the only real skilled offensive player that has performed consistently for them (amare has been injured, JR is hot and cold). When you look at the makeup of the Knicks, he is really the only legitimate offensive threat they have had (I know Lebron took a shitty Cavs team to the finals). Everyone else has been more of a specific skill type of player who have had their moments but are not consistent offensive scorers and definitely not anyone that can create their own shot. In terms of playoffs, I'd probably compare Melo to the situation Jordan was in before Pippen and all those great role players came on. That excuse will not hold for next year though, with a healthy Amare even on on a minutes restriction, an emerging Iman, a more consistent JR and the additions of Bergnani and MWP, he needs to realize that the talent is there for it to not have to be the Melo show all the time. Good playoff teams take time to mold, I don't know what the situation was in Denver but in his NY years, we've had coaching changes, personnel changes, injuries etc so its hard for me to make the Knicks playoff failures simply be about Melo.

And speaking of the Knicks, if they every do anything again in terms of a chip, it will be in spite of Dolan and Woodson, not because of. First, they let Copeland sign with the Pacers (prigioni was a bigger priority???) and then Woodson comes out and publicly says that it wasn't a big deal because he was not even sure if Copeland was going to make the Knicks confused.gif He was the only guy they had that could score inside and outside, could play three positions and was instant offense off the bench. Given the same minutes as JR, he'll probably average more than him. And he wasn't going to make the club???? I'm sure Copeland has already circled the Knicks game on his schedule.

Then yesterday this story that Dolan and Woodson want to trade Shumpert because he did not want to play Summer League????? Have they fucking lost it?? He is a third year player. The most dynamic player the Knicks have, turning into a shutdown perimeter defender and developing a good 3 point shot and has more fire in his belly than the whole team put together. You are going to hold a grudge against the guy because he didn't want to run around with D Leaguers, Euro players and rookies, after he just came back from a torn ACL a few months back? And that grudge is strong enough to get you to want to trade him?? Dolan is easily the biggest joke in the NBA owners group and Woodson is a decent coach, not great, and he is like a 10 year old when he does not like you. He holds grudges and will not play players that are deserving of playing. He hated Fields (and destroyed his confidence/game), hated Lin, hated Copeland and he lets it effect his rotations. He does not know how to manage these guys, he runs the Knicks on a "keep Melo happy" basis, which I guess he gets from Dolan, who is smitten like a teenage girl with Melo. The thought that he would let Melo go to LA is laughable, he'd make Melo a partial owner before letting him go.
post #12722 of 27220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade View Post

Pretty sure Paul will go the LA once his contract in Indiana is done. 
Doubt lebron is gonna take his talents to LA and is meLo to LA even that good of an idea for the team? 2 ball hoggers

Paul George yes, the rest no. I don't believe LA would target him though. I would believe that if OKC can't make a solid run you'll see RW or KD targeted. Not sure when their contracts are up.
post #12723 of 27220
i think either lebron or melo would be a mistake for la. both are players in their prime with limited growth potential. they'd be paying full price, admittedly for talented players. i think they'd be better off trying to figure out who the NEXT lebron or melo will be and going after them. with the way the cba is structured now, superstar salaries can be a major dead end.
post #12724 of 27220
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodguy View Post

i think either lebron or melo would be a mistake for la. both are players in their prime with limited growth potential. they'd be paying full price, admittedly for talented players. i think they'd be better off trying to figure out who the NEXT lebron or melo will be and going after them. with the way the cba is structured now, superstar salaries can be a major dead end.

Ya, its so much harder to justify max guys now. There are only 2 I think really warrant it in the league. LJ and KD. Everyone else is on a downward scale.
post #12725 of 27220
la just needs more role players (or maybe a brighter gm).
post #12726 of 27220
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Melo gets a lot of flack for his playoff experiences (and if you look through my posts, I am not a Melo apologist) but he did take a shitty Denver team, with a shitty coach to the division Finals. And with the Knicks, the last two years, he has been the only real skilled offensive player that has performed consistently for them (amare has been injured, JR is hot and cold). When you look at the makeup of the Knicks, he is really the only legitimate offensive threat they have had (I know Lebron took a shitty Cavs team to the finals). Everyone else has been more of a specific skill type of player who have had their moments but are not consistent offensive scorers and definitely not anyone that can create their own shot. In terms of playoffs, I'd probably compare Melo to the situation Jordan was in before Pippen and all those great role players came on. That excuse will not hold for next year though, with a healthy Amare even on on a minutes restriction, an emerging Iman, a more consistent JR and the additions of Bergnani and MWP, he needs to realize that the talent is there for it to not have to be the Melo show all the time. Good playoff teams take time to mold, I don't know what the situation was in Denver but in his NY years, we've had coaching changes, personnel changes, injuries etc so its hard for me to make the Knicks playoff failures simply be about Melo.

And speaking of the Knicks, if they every do anything again in terms of a chip, it will be in spite of Dolan and Woodson, not because of. First, they let Copeland sign with the Pacers (prigioni was a bigger priority???) and then Woodson comes out and publicly says that it wasn't a big deal because he was not even sure if Copeland was going to make the Knicks confused.gif He was the only guy they had that could score inside and outside, could play three positions and was instant offense off the bench. Given the same minutes as JR, he'll probably average more than him. And he wasn't going to make the club???? I'm sure Copeland has already circled the Knicks game on his schedule.

Then yesterday this story that Dolan and Woodson want to trade Shumpert because he did not want to play Summer League????? Have they fucking lost it?? He is a third year player. The most dynamic player the Knicks have, turning into a shutdown perimeter defender and developing a good 3 point shot and has more fire in his belly than the whole team put together. You are going to hold a grudge against the guy because he didn't want to run around with D Leaguers, Euro players and rookies, after he just came back from a torn ACL a few months back? And that grudge is strong enough to get you to want to trade him?? Dolan is easily the biggest joke in the NBA owners group and Woodson is a decent coach, not great, and he is like a 10 year old when he does not like you. He holds grudges and will not play players that are deserving of playing. He hated Fields (and destroyed his confidence/game), hated Lin, hated Copeland and he lets it effect his rotations. He does not know how to manage these guys, he runs the Knicks on a "keep Melo happy" basis, which I guess he gets from Dolan, who is smitten like a teenage girl with Melo. The thought that he would let Melo go to LA is laughable, he'd make Melo a partial owner before letting him go.


Melo gets flak not just because of his playoff experiences, he gets flak because he's never been even slightly interested in playing defense. And that's where your comparison with Jordan fails and also why Melo will never be a champion (until/unless he decides to play both ends of the floor).

In the short term (the next several years), the Lakers need to hope Kobe comes back to full strength and put together a solid roster of complementary players (Kaman and Gasol, for the few years he has left, are a good start) in order to contend. They'll also need an outside shooter or two and a lock-down defender, someone like Shane Battier. Then for the longer term, they need to identify and acquire the next superstar. I'm not sure how Kaman fits in D'Antoni's system though. He can run the floor fairly well, but can he do it for 40 minutes a night?
post #12727 of 27220
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodguy View Post

i think either lebron or melo would be a mistake for la. both are players in their prime with limited growth potential. they'd be paying full price, admittedly for talented players. i think they'd be better off trying to figure out who the NEXT lebron or melo will be and going after them. with the way the cba is structured now, superstar salaries can be a major dead end.

shitload of teams are tanking for a chance to get at Andrew Wiggins. Wiggins wants to play for the Raptors, though. 

 

Also, Lebron is only 28. If i was an owner and he decides to leave miami next year, i'd give him a max salary 

 

As long as kobe is in LA, any star who goes has to accept that he's going to be behind kobe

 

I dont see kobe doing a wade kind of thing where he accepts that he is no longer the man on the team

post #12728 of 27220
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

Melo gets a lot of flack for his playoff experiences (and if you look through my posts, I am not a Melo apologist) but he did take a shitty Denver team, with a shitty coach to the division Finals. And with the Knicks, the last two years, he has been the only real skilled offensive player that has performed consistently for them (amare has been injured, JR is hot and cold).

remember when melo could've just played out his last year and become an unrestricted free agent? he could've signed with the knicks and had a nice core of players to possibly be instant championship contenders.

instead he forced a mid season trade - where he would only play/sign long term with one team the knicks. the knicks had no leverage and basically gutted its depth to get melo.

melo is just as guilty for his supposed reasons for possibly wanting to leave the knicks (lack of depth and financial flexibility) as dolan.

add to the fact that melo just doesn't have to track record to be that kind of franchise changing guy. want proof? the nuggets are a better team after he left. usually superstars leaving (especially via trade) means the franchise is moribund. but the nuggests turned into contenders.
post #12729 of 27220
Quote:
Originally Posted by AceBoogie View Post

I dont see kobe doing a wade kind of thing where he accepts that he is no longer the man on the team
i agree. but i DO see kobe doing a magic johnson kind of thing where he accepts a lower salary in exchange for a piece of the team.
post #12730 of 27220
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodguy View Post


i agree. but i DO see kobe doing a magic johnson kind of thing where he accepts a lower salary in exchange for a piece of the team.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/kobe-bryant-does-not-want-pay-cut-help-125531553.html

obviously when the time comes he might take a cut to attract talent but i dont think he will take that big of a cut if any at all, which hurts the franchise. 

post #12731 of 27220
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawrenceMD View Post

remember when melo could've just played out his last year and become an unrestricted free agent? he could've signed with the knicks and had a nice core of players to possibly be instant championship contenders.

instead he forced a mid season trade - where he would only play/sign long term with one team the knicks. the knicks had no leverage and basically gutted its depth to get melo.

melo is just as guilty for his supposed reasons for possibly wanting to leave the knicks (lack of depth and financial flexibility) as dolan.

add to the fact that melo just doesn't have to track record to be that kind of franchise changing guy. want proof? the nuggets are a better team after he left. usually superstars leaving (especially via trade) means the franchise is moribund. but the nuggests turned into contenders.

I agree with what you say except that while Denver is a deeper team then when he was there, the team has not gotten farther in the playoffs than he took them.
post #12732 of 27220
Well Kobe is going to take a pay cut with his next contract for sure. The max is far under his current annual salary of 30m or so. Even at the max the first year is gonna be about 14m or so, which gives them some cap room. I presume he's not looking for a 4 or 5 year contract. I agree with food guy about him transitioning into ownership or the front office. He and Magic are the two most beloved lakers in history and they'll be a benefit to the lakers if they're around after they stop playing
post #12733 of 27220
I really find it funny that the Lakers are speaking so far in advance about 2014 offseason when the '13-'14 season hasn't even started yet.
post #12734 of 27220
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13k View Post

I really find it funny that the Lakers are speaking so far in advance about 2014 offseason when the '13-'14 season hasn't even started yet.
i find it sad. that said, there's still some potential on this team ... big question for me is whether they'll make the top half of the playoff bracket.
post #12735 of 27220
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodguy View Post

i find it sad. that said, there's still some potential on this team ... big question for me is whether they'll make the top half of the playoff bracket.

As overhyped as last years Lakers were, this years are underhyped, if that is a word. A core of Kobe, Pau and Nash are still better than 50-60% of the teams out there, Add in Kaman and I think they will be better than last year. No kowtowing to Howard, Gasol and Kaman take care of the inside and Kobe and the shooters the outside with Nash facilitating for everyone. The two risks are injuries and D'Antoni coaching like D'Antoni.
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