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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 830

post #12436 of 27247
Thread Starter 
Does Thibs have a choice though? He can't find a consistent scorer & facilitator with Rose out and Noah & Hinrich are just always hurt, even before the playoffs. Really surprised they made the playoffs, while the East looks like it has contenders, it is still isn't as deep as the West. In the East, the top 4-5 is a given but after that, it is still a pretty weak conference while in the West there is always a battle up to the 8th-10th place.
post #12437 of 27247
Am I the only that thinks hall of fame caliber PGs in their prime are a waste? I think in this day and age, especially, I'd much rather dump them for a premier SG, SF or PF because those are the types that bring in the championships. An all-star PG, at best, seems like more than enough.
post #12438 of 27247
Thread Starter 
I'd rather get a premiere center not named Dwight but right now that doesn't exist.

I think a very good PG is still essential (just look at how CP3 changed the Clippers) but as a centerpiece of the franchise? It is probably better to build around another position. I just think the league has too much good PG right now, not all HoFers but some of these guys are really good. In the past 8 years, 6 of the 8 RoY have been PGs (CP3, Irving, Lillard, Rose, Evans & Roy) in addition to the other still rising PG (Jrue, Westbrook, Curry, Teague, Hill, Lawson, etc...) and then there are still others like Deron, Conley, Ellis, Jennings, etc... So the league feels diluted and you can probably get a superstar in a different position and still get a very good PG to play along him/them.
post #12439 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by shibbel View Post

Am I the only that thinks hall of fame caliber PGs in their prime are a waste? I think in this day and age, especially, I'd much rather dump them for a premier SG, SF or PF because those are the types that bring in the championships. An all-star PG, at best, seems like more than enough.

I kind of agree although depending on how you feel about Tony Parker, San Antonio has been the exception to my "you can't win a chip with a high scoring PG leasing the team".

I think the philly trade was great fro Philly and the Pelicans can't really get any worse. Holiday is a good player but I'm "meh" on high scoring point guards and Holiday has really only had one good season. So they get MCW, who won't average more than 8-10 points in the NBA but can guard both guard positions and is a legitimate floor leader. You get the guy that everyone says is the player in the draft with the most upside and you give up a guard that was going to keep you as a number 8 seed at best. Defensively, Williams and Noel bring a lot to the table right now. Offensively, Williams is mediocre and Noel needs a lot of work but for next year's draft, they are now lined up to get Wiggins or Parker, they can then add a rebounding big man and some spot up shooters and they become 1000% better in 2 years, again, after only giving up a one time all star. The worst thing that can happen to them is that they overachieve next year and make the playoffs. I'm not sure how you coach/manage that situation. "Ok guys, we want you to be competitive but don't win too many games, we need to get the number 1 or 2 pick next year!"
post #12440 of 27247
Thread Starter 
Jrue is still only 23 years old though and made the AllStar in his 3rd year? Fuck the upside on Noel, who wouldn't even play til December and will likely get setbacks and most likely play February or not at all next season. Dude is already sounding like a douche, being mad and surprised that he went 5th in the draft. I mean, WTF did he expect? To be number 1 with that knee? He should be happy he is 5th and prove he can play in the league before threaten to "show them (teams who passed on him)" what they missed out on.

Overall, this years draft as a whole sucks and I could have sworn some analysts were saying this is one of the worst in recent memory. Hell Cavs were giving away the #1 pick even before the draft started. lol8[1].gif I'll take Jrue over anyone drafted this year anytime, anyplace.
post #12441 of 27247
hard to say whether your pg argument is based on the way the game has changed, or the talent that's available to make the argument ... rose, paul, parker ... those are pretty good players to build a team around. nash until last year. but there dont' seem to be a lot of contenders after that.
post #12442 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

Jrue is still only 23 years old though and made the AllStar in his 3rd year? Fuck the upside on Noel, who wouldn't even play til December and will likely get setbacks and most likely play February or not at all next season. Dude is already sounding like a douche, being mad and surprised that he went 5th in the draft. I mean, WTF did he expect? To be number 1 with that knee? He should be happy he is 5th and prove he can play in the league before threaten to "show them (teams who passed on him)" what they missed out on.

Overall, this years draft as a whole sucks and I could have sworn some analysts were saying this is one of the worst in recent memory. Hell Cavs were giving away the #1 pick even before the draft started. lol8[1].gif I'll take Jrue over anyone drafted this year anytime, anyplace.

I don't really buy that "this draft sucked" line of thought.


Noel thought he was first because that is what everyone around him told him, what everyone was writing and probably what everyone who he worked out for told him. Jrue is a good solid player, but he is not a difference maker. A shot blocker in the NBA is a difference maker. If they get Wiggins or Parker next year, no one will remember Jrue.

I think Cavs did great getting Bennett, a legitimate back to the basket scorer in a league that has very few left and a guy that can also shoot from the outside. When you go through the top 15 picks, for me at least, there are maybe 3-4 guys that I question whether they will be in the league 2 years from now. Everyone else I think will at worse be a solid rotation player. To me that is a strong draft. I mean, the Knicks got Hardaway at 24 and usually, a pick that low is a "project" at best.
post #12443 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodguy View Post

hard to say whether your pg argument is based on the way the game has changed, or the talent that's available to make the argument ... rose, paul, parker ... those are pretty good players to build a team around. nash until last year. but there dont' seem to be a lot of contenders after that.

I am not a fan of building a team around a point guard, I see that position as a "supporting role". Rose is an exception but I think the type of team that would be the most successful with a Rose is exactly the team Chicago has, there really is no one else on that team the demands/requires 20 shots a game (I misspelled "shots" with "shits" and laughed out loud). Deng is a solid player and the perfect sidekick to a Rose. Noah, Butler, Boozer, Gibson, all those are guys that excel when someone else is forcing the action, putting up the shots or going to the rim. Put Rose on Lakers or OKC, and I don't think they would be as good a team as a Rose led Chicago. Paul to me is more of a classic point guard that can score. He looks for the other guys first and knows how to get guys to their spots. Nash is not a player I would build a team around.
post #12444 of 27247
Thread Starter 
And if Jrue averages 20pts/10ast next season? They'd be kicking themselves like Portland did by picking Oden over Durant. I'm just not sold on this years draft, I have very low expectations and I see most as a solid wingman at best.

And Ginobili is a 57th pick and Parker was 28th. So what is your point? There will always be lower drafted player that will excel but for the most part, those are sheer dumb luck outside of San Antonio who just knows how to develop their players.

13 out of the first 15 players being a solid rotation player as a strong draft? What is solid? 8-10 minute player in the span of a 10 year career? That is not a strong draft. 2008 is a strong draft with Rose, Westbrook, Love, Batum, Lopez, Hibbert, Gallinari, etc... 99 Draft was strong with Brand, Marion, Hamilton, Odom, Artest, BDiddy, Francis, etc... With 03, 96 & 84 being the best ever draft years. This years is mediocre at best but hey, feel free to come back after the season ends next year and give me an "I told you so". I'd love to be proven wrong but right now, no one stands out and I feel this draft will be right there in the bottom as one of the worst.
post #12445 of 27247
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodguy View Post

hard to say whether your pg argument is based on the way the game has changed, or the talent that's available to make the argument ... rose, paul, parker ... those are pretty good players to build a team around. nash until last year. but there dont' seem to be a lot of contenders after that.


Respond to me? If so, my post was that it is easy to feel that an elite PG isn't necessary to win a chip because there are so many good PGs out there. I still think it is necessary and if I can get a CP3 or Rose on my team to build around, I certainly would. But if we do play a fantasy league-type of draft where you start from scratch and draft players, a PG probably wouldn't be my first or even top 5 pick in the league right now.
post #12446 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

And if Jrue averages 20pts/10ast next season? They'd be kicking themselves like Portland did by picking Oden over Durant. I'm just not sold on this years draft, I have very low expectations and I see most as a solid wingman at best.

And Ginobili is a 57th pick and Parker was 28th. So what is your point? There will always be lower drafted player that will excel but for the most part, those are sheer dumb luck outside of San Antonio who just knows how to develop their players.

13 out of the first 15 players being a solid rotation player as a strong draft? What is solid? 8-10 minute player in the span of a 10 year career? That is not a strong draft. 2008 is a strong draft with Rose, Westbrook, Love, Batum, Lopez, Hibbert, Gallinari, etc... 99 Draft was strong with Brand, Marion, Hamilton, Odom, Artest, BDiddy, Francis, etc... With 03, 96 & 84 being the best ever draft years. This years is mediocre at best but hey, feel free to come back after the season ends next year and give me an "I told you so". I'd love to be proven wrong but right now, no one stands out and I feel this draft will be right there in the bottom as one of the worst.

98' draft was my favorite

Jamison
Carter
Bibby
Nowitzki (traded from Bucks for rights to Tractor Traylor)
Paul Pierce
Jason Williams
Rashard Lewis
Brad Miller

Each on of those guys made an all star game at least once with exception to white chocolate who finished in top 3 in ROY
post #12447 of 27247
a great point guard makes everybody on the team more productive, that's not something you can say of a 2, 3 or 4, though those guys will probably put up more points. A great 5, of course, is grail time -- scoring, rebounding, stopping. but so much in basketball, particularly nba, is about the flow and that's where the pg comes in.
post #12448 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

A taller Morrison. No way this dude is anything like Love or Dirk. lol8[1].gif He is so slow and doesn't have Dirks fade or Love.
Is Morrison out of the league?
post #12449 of 27247
So for the guys who think this is a good draft - which player or players do you think will make even one all star team?
post #12450 of 27247
Mcclemore
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