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NBA 2014-2015 Season Thread - Page 613

post #9181 of 17998
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

You keep saying this but literally nobody is arguing harden is a worse player than martin

I also don't think rockets are a contender

Well when people say Harden leaving for Martin is a good thing, then yes to some extent people are saying that Martin > Harden and I disagree with that.

And yes I had to reiterate that point because as you can see from Rambos response (which is the one I was replying to) he clearly said Martin is a great third option and I stated again how he isn't and that Harden is a better 3rd option.

While the Rockets aren't a title contender, it does keep them as a playoff team for sure and with all the moves they have done, they can still offer a max contract (or two iirc) even with the contracts to Lin and Asik this off-season. I also disagree that a playmaker is the last thing the Rockets need. First of all, Harden will be the focal point of offense, he doesn't have to facilitate anymore, he just has to score but he does have a great field of vision and can distribute the ball if needed but that isn't his first job anymore. He can make other players better so yeah, Lin is still the playmaker but really, dude isn't even 100% with his knee.
post #9182 of 17998
Do you really think they are a playoff team though, at least in the West? For playoffs, I see (in no particular order):

  1. OKC
  2. Denver
  3. Spurs
  4. Lakers
  5. Clippers
  6. Grizz
  7. Utah


And then either Dallas, MN, or GSW. Looking at the Rockets lineup, I really don't see anything all too impressive, especially with Lin's bum knee. I would practically take Lowry over Lin.
post #9183 of 17998
Thread Starter 
Minnesota is missing Rubio and Love and only has Roy right now. Those two injuries could linger the whole season too.

GSW? Come on now. Curry sprained his ankle again. I'd put the Suns and maybe even the Kings over the Warriors (Bogut needs to be a beast but injury prone). Might even put the Hornets but I wouldn't go that far because they are filled with rookies and the often injured Gordon.

Dallas, I'd still put them in the playoff picture, even before Utah.

Utah is still iffy at this point, I just have no confidence in them at the moment. Not sure if Foye & Mo could help them out much.

I can easily see the Rockets, Blazers and Jazz battling for the 8th place and if Dallas for some reason doesn't make it, 2 of those 3 teams will make it.
post #9184 of 17998
Yeah, that is probably true. I am interested to see how this season plays out. And the Suns / Kings? They are going to be terrible. I think that the Suns, Kings, and Hornets will probably be at the bottom, although I am interested to see how Davis turns out.

I put GSW and the Wolves in their own category. If they can recover from injuries, I think that they could be a surprise this season, the wolves especially. From what I hear, Love should not be out too long.

The Rockets, Blazers, Jazz, and Dallas (with the edge to Dallas) I see vying for a spot. They are probably the safe bets. I think that the Jazz should be a solid team this year. I just don't know how much faith I have in the Rockets with their line-up. And sadly, I have never really been much of a Rockets fan. Although I do hate them substantially less than I absolutely despise the Clippers. I kind of worry about Dallas' age and motivation at this point in time. Last year Nowitzki never really hit his stride, and I just don't see him having the same motivation that he used to. I really can't blame him to be honest.
post #9185 of 17998
Thread Starter 
I think the Hornets is being ranked way too low. The team is full of young talent. They have Gordon who is an easy second round pick (bball fantasywise) that just needs to be 100%. They have the lengthy Davis that will likely be the rookie of the year, Anderson who was pretty good in Orlando, a PF/C that can sink 3s. They have Austin Rivers who has more upside than Lamb but again, he got hurt. I think that is a pretty solid core with the addition of Vasquez who is a rising PG (he did well as the main PG at the second half of last season).

So I would put them right there in the category of GSW and MIN who could get close to 8th place (but could not quite make it) if healthy.
post #9186 of 17998
Can we have a new thread for the new season?
post #9187 of 17998
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post

Can we have a new thread for the new season?

I changed the name.
post #9188 of 17998
bold predictions for this year:

- mike brown is going to be fired even if the lakers reach the finals

- russel westbrook traded straight up for rajon rondo if both teams start to falter before the all star break. Why? OKC gets players with more clearly defined rolls and KD finally gets totally unleashed and scores like 34pts/game, OKC saves almost 3million with the contract per year (Sam Presti creams his pants). Boston literally can't say no to the trade if offered.

- atlanta hawks win 50 games.
post #9189 of 17998
no way russell westbrook gets traded for rondo. there would have to be a shit ton of incentives for presti to even consider which i highly doubt he will regardless of what's offered. he didnt even consider the harden trade until harden's agent said no to anything less than max
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

Well when people say Harden leaving for Martin is a good thing, then yes to some extent people are saying that Martin > Harden and I disagree with that.
And yes I had to reiterate that point because as you can see from Rambos response (which is the one I was replying to) he clearly said Martin is a great third option and I stated again how he isn't and that Harden is a better 3rd option.
While the Rockets aren't a title contender, it does keep them as a playoff team for sure and with all the moves they have done, they can still offer a max contract (or two iirc) even with the contracts to Lin and Asik this off-season. I also disagree that a playmaker is the last thing the Rockets need. First of all, Harden will be the focal point of offense, he doesn't have to facilitate anymore, he just has to score but he does have a great field of vision and can distribute the ball if needed but that isn't his first job anymore. He can make other players better so yeah, Lin is still the playmaker but really, dude isn't even 100% with his knee.

if you asked rambo point blank who is better harden or martin he would no doubt say harden. what he is saying is that holistically, looking at the whole trade, okc came out ahead. harden wouldlnt take anything less than a max contract which okc couldnt afford because of the luxury tax (even at 5 million difference), martin is a decent shooter who will produce either as a starter or as bench, lamb shows promise, top 3 protected draft pick from toronto, first round draft pick from dallas, dumping daquan cook and lazar hayward, for less money than what they would have paid harden. if you look at everything you could reasonably see how okc came out ahead.

i do agree with you tho. i dont think rockets is best served by harden. i'm guessing harden and lin will share ball controlling duties with lin getting more. harden really isnt a typical sg but he is no doubt a great addition. can't wait for the season to start today

i wonder how much bad blood will be between the heats and celtics game tonight
post #9190 of 17998
ESPN power rankings have the Spurs ahead of the Lakers. As much of a Spurs fan that I am and Laker hater that I am, I was very surprised.
post #9191 of 17998
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

if you asked rambo point blank who is better harden or martin he would no doubt say harden.

You'd be surprised at how Rambo thinks, this dude hate the movie TDK because of Batmans voice or any superhero movie because they do not all wear colorful spandex. I wouldn't be surprised if he actually believed Martin is better than Harden. lol8[1].gif
post #9192 of 17998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post

ESPN power rankings have the Spurs ahead of the Lakers. As much of a Spurs fan that I am and Laker hater that I am, I was very surprised.

 

I'm not surprised. I think the Spurs will end the season 5 games ahead of the Lakers.

 

Lakers are built for the playoffs, not the regular season. I don't think they'll finish higher than 3rd in the west.

post #9193 of 17998
Thread Starter 
I really can't doubt the Spurs after what they did last year so I can't say anything to refute that ranking even if Manu is already hurt, they still manage to play well. Is Tony still wearing his goggles?

Fox Sports has it Heat > OKC > Laker and the Spur in 8th though. Bleacher report has it the same but the Spurs in 4th. One thing is for certain, it'll be a good fight for the top spot, at least in the West. The East seems a bit soft at the moment so it's good for the Nets as they can make that team look much better than it should be. They only have the Heat, Celtics, Sixers and a Rose-less Bulls to compete with. While the West is loaded with a bunch of teams with a very deep roster.
post #9194 of 17998
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

no way russell westbrook gets traded for rondo. there would have to be a shit ton of incentives for presti to even consider which i highly doubt he will regardless of what's offered. he didnt even consider the harden trade until harden's agent said no to anything less than max

wait what? presti pulled the trigger extremely fast when he saw that harden wanted the max or nothing, that means that presti had a "plan b: trade harden" scenario from the beginning. if anything... presti has got a hair trigger when things aren't going towards his philosophy.

if westbrook keeps on gunning and ends up averaging near equal (or god forbid) more shot attempts than kevin durrant - and they underperform this year... you can bet your ass presti will keep durrant and see what he can do to fix the offense.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
remember a HUGE reason the heat won the championship is because wade was not 100%, and Bosh figured out how to be effective (ironically by being injured) in that offense. Wade was forced to be lebron's right hand, and bosh finally was efficient on offense again.

OKC also have a 2011 heat situation (dueling alpha dogs) with westbrook averaging more shot attempts/game than kevin durrant during large stretches in last years playoffs. for all the talent westbrook has, its just counterintuitive to have him taking more shots than kevin durant especially since he's a "point guard". you can literally see westbrook turn into the hulk and start forcing drives/shots even when durrant is a better option.

its been said time and time again.... westbrook is by nature a 2guard/scoring guard who can potentially average 30pts/game (dwane wade 2006/kobe 2.1).... he needs to be unleashed and score rather than be shackled into trying to run offense and decrease his shot attempts because there is an even more potent/talented offensive option called kevin durant.

so there is a lot of incentive to do a rondo/westbrook swap in a situation where OKC isn't performing well in the 1st half of the season.

1. more defined rolls: rondo is a true PG and KD and others benefit
3. rondo can still average near 15pts alone in addition to a better run offense
2. OKC saves almost 3 million/year in total payroll and stays under the luxury tax/salary cap
3. they have 3 million to sign more talent/ resign existing talent to make the roster deeper

that said... if OKC figures out a good offense and rolls then there's no reason to trade westbrook. but there's always going to be that issue of dueling alpha dogs. its just isn't organic and feels volatile - like a couple thats happy for now... but you wouldn't be surprised if the get a divorce.
post #9195 of 17998

I don't like a Rondo for Westbrook swap at all for OKC.


Think of it this way, Kevin Martin is a rental and is unlikely to be brought back next year unless he signs cheap. So let's say he's gone and they replace him with an average 2-gaurd (someone like Courtney Lee for example)

 

Then who scores for OKC? Durant is a tremendous player, but with no Harden/Martin and Rondo instead of Westbrook, how does this team get to 95 points a game?

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