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NBA 2014-2015 Season Thread - Page 560

post #8386 of 18925
In regards to the whole Howard affair the Magic can either trade him to the Nets or sit on his contract for the remaining year and take the cap room.

No team in their right mind is going to trade anybody of any value. If Howard doesn't want to play for the team he will sulk on the bench for a year and then go where he wants to in free agency.

If the Magic decide to keep him, Howard has to at least try a little bit just to maintain his value when he hits the free agent market.

If the Magic want to take the Nets trade, the one proposed a few posts earlier is pretty good. Lopez only has one year left on his contract and Brooks is still playing on his rookie contract. Humphries isn't currently under contract so the only wild card is what he would sign for.

Also, Rambo, I love you, but there is no way that Howard is a top 5 player. For last season he was 6th in PER and he barely makes the top 15 in Win Shares.

RFX, not sure if this is what you were asking, but if the Nets trade 3 first round picks to Orlando, the picks will be based upon the Nets performance in the years tied to the draft picks. Orlando's performance will have no bearing on those picks and will only affect the first round picks that Orlando had in the first place.

If the Nets to make the trade, it's true that they basically will have nobody under contract past Howard and Williams. That said, that is a pretty potent 1-2 punch. Given that they will play in one of the most desirable markets in the NBA, I don't think it will be that hard to recruit the talent necessary to compete in the East.
post #8387 of 18925
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggskip View Post

RFX, not sure if this is what you were asking, but if the Nets trade 3 first round picks to Orlando, the picks will be based upon the Nets performance in the years tied to the draft picks. Orlando's performance will have no bearing on those picks and will only affect the first round picks that Orlando had in the first place.

If the Nets to make the trade, it's true that they basically will have nobody under contract past Howard and Williams. That said, that is a pretty potent 1-2 punch. Given that they will play in one of the most desirable markets in the NBA, I don't think it will be that hard to recruit the talent necessary to compete in the East.

Yah that was pretty much my question.

As for the second statement I quoted, how much money will they have to attract players that is willing to take a huge pay cut though? I mean even Miami had the big 3 sacrifice some money and they were still stuck getting old dudes or rookies/d-leaguers.
post #8388 of 18925
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

so the nets become a solid playoff team (assuming they stay healthy) buy effing up their future cap space. They are becoming the knicks and I am afraid to say that they stand a chance of being better than the knicks next season frown.gif

Basically. And, no Jeremy Lin. The Knicks are going to go backwards in a big way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

Wow, way to twist my words around to try and make a stupid point. I simply stated I could see it happening (as in it's possible) and you turn it into "seeing the future" like it's a fact? Get the hell out of here.
And Howard 3rd best player? Are you kidding me? 2-3 years ago I would have agreed with you but he hardly progressed in the past years and still has less than a handful of post moves. Lebron, KD, Wade, Kobe, Love, Rose, CP3, Westbrook, Melo, Dirk, etc... are all easily better than Howard at this point. Keep in mind Dwight finaly got his big injury and centers tends to keep those injuries the rest of their careers and that his ugly diva attitude has surfaced.
And the discussion is Nets trade with Orlando for Howard and he already said he isn't signing with them so at this point, he really can't change shit in the Magic other than to fuck with them next year.

Calm down, I was just fucking with you. Yes it was a ridiculous point, but don't be so sensitive about it Sally. No, I don't think DH is a top 3 player. But I've heard others argue he's behind only Lebron and Durant. I'd definitely put him in the top 5 though, given Rose's now busted knee, Kobe's increasing age, and CP3's falling apart body. Fact is, I'd take him on the Lakers any day of the week.

All this "will he sign with anybody else?" crap is bullshit. He's basically being led around by the nose by his people. That can change REAL quick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggskip View Post

In regards to the whole Howard affair the Magic can either trade him to the Nets or sit on his contract for the remaining year and take the cap room.
No team in their right mind is going to trade anybody of any value. If Howard doesn't want to play for the team he will sulk on the bench for a year and then go where he wants to in free agency.
If the Magic decide to keep him, Howard has to at least try a little bit just to maintain his value when he hits the free agent market.
If the Magic want to take the Nets trade, the one proposed a few posts earlier is pretty good. Lopez only has one year left on his contract and Brooks is still playing on his rookie contract. Humphries isn't currently under contract so the only wild card is what he would sign for.
Also, Rambo, I love you, but there is no way that Howard is a top 5 player. For last season he was 6th in PER and he barely makes the top 15 in Win Shares.
RFX, not sure if this is what you were asking, but if the Nets trade 3 first round picks to Orlando, the picks will be based upon the Nets performance in the years tied to the draft picks. Orlando's performance will have no bearing on those picks and will only affect the first round picks that Orlando had in the first place.
If the Nets to make the trade, it's true that they basically will have nobody under contract past Howard and Williams. That said, that is a pretty potent 1-2 punch. Given that they will play in one of the most desirable markets in the NBA, I don't think it will be that hard to recruit the talent necessary to compete in the East.

The Magic HAVE to trade him. To sit on him for the whole season and lose him for nothing would be a replay of the Shaq debacle. And that put that team back a decade or more. The fans would fucking revolt.
post #8389 of 18925
Howard, Williams, Joe Johnson and Gerald Wallace wouldn't be a bad start to compete in a depleted aging East.

And it seems like that Russian owner doesn't give a shit about the soft cap.
post #8390 of 18925
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

Yah that was pretty much my question.
As for the second statement I quoted, how much money will they have to attract players that is willing to take a huge pay cut though? I mean even Miami had the big 3 sacrifice some money and they were still stuck getting old dudes or rookies/d-leaguers.

Well it looks like Williams won't be taking a cut. That is most likely his reward for being loyal and taking a chance on this whole experience. Howard will obviously want to work out an extension as soon as he is traded. Since he is the one who wanted to join the Nets so badly it will be interesting to see if he is willing to budge on salary demands in order to attract the talent necessary to win. Let's say he signs for $15MM in the first season. That gives them $25MM-$30MM to play with in free agency. That's a pretty big war chest to have.
post #8391 of 18925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo View Post

The Magic HAVE to trade him. To sit on him for the whole season and lose him for nothing would be a replay of the Shaq debacle. And that put that team back a decade or more. The fans would fucking revolt.

They could put him on waivers. The new CBA makes the luxury tax much more harsh and teams are not going to be so willing to go over the cap as a result. Taking one season, where you aren't going to win the title anyways, to just let his contract run out is a totally viable option. Why trade for a bunch of bad contracts that are going to kill your cap flexibility. That said, I think the Nets deal, so long as they don't sell the farm to pay Humphries, is actually quite good.
post #8392 of 18925
Thread Starter 
I'm still confused if DWill got blinded by the $100mil contract (I would be too) or if the Nets already guaranteed him Howard? I really thought he wants to win and was on his way out to Dallas (his hometown) where they could also possibly get Dwight. I really don't see DWill being enthusiastic enough to sign due to the Johnson acquisition.
post #8393 of 18925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggskip View Post

Well it looks like Williams won't be taking a cut. That is most likely his reward for being loyal and taking a chance on this whole experience. Howard will obviously want to work out an extension as soon as he is traded. Since he is the one who wanted to join the Nets so badly it will be interesting to see if he is willing to budge on salary demands in order to attract the talent necessary to win. Let's say he signs for $15MM in the first season. That gives them $25MM-$30MM to play with in free agency. That's a pretty big war chest to have.

Those figures aren't right. Breakdown on the current roster from Hollinger:
Quote:
I hope Mirza Teletovic is good, because signing him basically precludes the possibility of the Brooklyn Nets ever getting Dwight Howard.

The Nets announced the latest in a flurry of offseason moves Tuesday, starting with a midlevel exception deal for the Bosnian forward, moving on to a sign-and-trade deal for the Clippers' Reggie Evans and capping it off with the news that Deron Williams will return, reportedly on a five-year deal worth nearly $100 million.

All this is heady stuff for a team that went 22-44 this past season, after already coming to terms with free-agent forward Gerald Wallace and engineering a huge trade for Hawks guard Joe Johnson.

The Nets also are talking about trading for Howard, or re-signing free-agent center Brook Lopez and re-upping power forward Kris Humphries, and by the way, they'd like to use their biannual exception to perhaps bring in Jason Kidd at backup point guard.

But there are rules about this stuff, and the Nets are in the process of colliding with them before they can achieve those final steps. The Teletovic deal is for the non-taxpayers' midlevel exception, which caps the Nets' salaries at $74,307,000 for 2012-13. They cannot go over by one cent at any point.

Put in Williams at $17,177,193, Wallace at $8.9 million, Evans at $1.6 million, Teletovic at $5 million, Johnson at $19,752, 645 and MarShon Brooks at $1,160,040, and the Nets are in a pickle before they even pick up a phone to call Orlando.

That's because they also have three unsigned free agents they would like to keep (Gerald Green, Humphries and Lopez), and the league puts a "cap hold" on the salaries of free agents to prevent teams from using chicanery to circumvent the cap. The hold for Humphries is $12 million, the hold for Lopez $7,692,458 and the hold for Green $854,389.

The league also adds a charge for empty roster spots, at the rock-bottom minimum of $473,604, figuring you eventually intend to fill them in order to field a team. Add three "holds" to get the Brooklyn roster to 12 players, and that's another $1,420,8162.

So right now, the Nets have $76,159,802 on the books, and they can't do that -- again, the most they're allowed is $74,307,000.

This isn't necessarily a problem -- if the combined salaries for Humphries, Lopez and Green are $18,694,045 or less, everything is peachy. Alternatively, they could let Humphries walk and just spend on the other two. As for Kidd, the Nets would need to carve out another $1.9 million below to bring him aboard.

But it gets really tricky when you try to make room for the $19,536,360 owed Howard. Even if the Nets use all three free agents in a trade for Howard and throw in Brooks, that takes $21,706,887 off their books. Add in Howard's money and three roster holds to get the Nets back to 12 players, and they're adding $20,957,172 back on.

In other words, it cuts only $749,715 from the Nets' books and leaves them a heart-rending $1,103,807 shy of pulling off a Howard trade.

Of course, all this is predicated on the figures that have been reported to date. Perhaps Williams opted to take less money to give the Nets a bit more wiggle room, but everybody is reporting that's not the case. Perhaps Teletovic's deal isn't for quite the full midlevel exception. Or perhaps the Evans deal won't go through.

But as things have been reported, the Nets are a few ducats short of pulling off any Howard trade, let alone a good Howard trade that might actually entice Orlando. Brooklyn can't take back any other contracts, not even a Chris Duhon- or Quentin Richardson-sized one. Because recently signed players can't be packaged in a trade for two months, the absolute best Brooklyn can offer is sign-and-trading its three free agents, Brooks and three first-round picks. And I greatly doubt that trumps the other offers that will be coming Orlando's way.

Even that sliver of hope goes out the window the second anybody signs Lopez to an offer sheet, which will preclude the Nets from sign-and-trading him to Orlando.

With Brooklyn also being capped out for the foreseeable future, it pretty much closes the door on Howard going there as a free agent in 2013, which was his other endgame.

In the end, though, the problem isn't with the extra $1.1 million; it's with the extra $20 million. When the Nets had a ton of cap room, it appeared they could appease the Magic by taking a bunch of bad contracts off their hands in a Howard trade. That ship now has sailed, and as a result, so has much of Orlando's incentive to trade with the Nets.

Even without Howard, a difficult dance remains for the Nets. Getting Humphries, Lopez and Green to all re-up for a combined $18.7 million will be difficult, and it might force the Nets to let Humphries walk. Getting them to re-up for just $16.8 million and reopen the biannual exception for Kidd will be virtually impossible, which is probably why Kidd now is looking at Dallas and New York. And I'm not sure what imaginary exception they plan on using to get Ersan Ilyasova.

After all that, the Nets will be filling the rest of the roster with training camp filler, offering only the rock-bottom minimum to second-round pick Tyshawn Taylor and two other roster players.

So like I said, I hope Teletovic is good. His numbers from Europe are nice, and it's possible he'll be replacing Humphries at power forward. Oh, and he's making it impossible to get Dwight Howard.
post #8394 of 18925
Awfully hard to pull off these big multi player trades/free agent signings. Good thing the Heat had three years and lots of collusion to plan it all happy.gif



Actually pretty damn impressive GM work from the Heat, getting the Big 3 to take less money (no FL income tax helps) and then crafting enough low salary guys to make it work.
post #8395 of 18925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo View Post

Basically. And, no Jeremy Lin. The Knicks are going to go backwards in a big way.
.

I can't see the Knicks not signing Lin. He is the 2-3rd most marketable player in the league, forgetting the fact that they don't even have a point guard. Why do we always go after guys that have had the best years with other teams and then give away our young guys frown.gif
post #8396 of 18925
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

How does trading draft pick work anyways? So if the Magic bombs next season (which is a possibility) that means their chance of getting a high lottery is higher, no? Or are they stuck getting that high number?
 

 

If the Magic get the Nets 1st round draft pick, that means they have 2 1st round picks next year (theirs and the Nets.) 

 

If they trade Howard, they'll be awful next year and their pick will end up being in the lottery (top 14.) But they'll be so bad it will probably be top 5.

 

The Nets will probably make the playoffs as constructed, so that pick will be at best the 15th (most likely around 20 or the high teens,) depending on the Nets standings at the end of the year.

post #8397 of 18925
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

I can't see the Knicks not signing Lin. He is the 2-3rd most marketable player in the league, forgetting the fact that they don't even have a point guard. Why do we always go after guys that have had the best years with other teams and then give away our young guys frown.gif

 

The Knicks will probably lose Lin if they get Asiked. Basically, if a team really backloads Lin's offer (say 5 mil a year for the first two, and 10 mil for the third and/or fourth.)

 

If the Knicks match that offer, their payroll will be royally fucked when the crazy luxury taxes kick in. 

post #8398 of 18925
isn't Teletovic that creepy children's show character that is rumored to be gay?
post #8399 of 18925
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

I can't see the Knicks not signing Lin. He is the 2-3rd most marketable player in the league, forgetting the fact that they don't even have a point guard. Why do we always go after guys that have had the best years with other teams and then give away our young guys frown.gif

Thanks James Dolan!

They've basically lost Landry Fields now. So, even if they get Lin, who's going to be the starting 5? Amare, Melo, Lin, Chandler, and who? Iman?
post #8400 of 18925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo View Post


Thanks James Dolan!
They've basically lost Landry Fields now. So, even if they get Lin, who's going to be the starting 5? Amare, Melo, Lin, Chandler, and who? Iman?

 

3 years / $20 mil is $10mil too much for Fields. I don't know what Toronto is thinking. Dolan would be smart not to match it.

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