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NBA 2014-2015 Season Thread - Page 1131

post #16951 of 19244
I've got Thomas at maybe 10th best in the West.

CP3, Westbrook, Lillard, Conley, Lawson, Parker, Curry, Bledsoe, Dragic and Holiday are all West PG's that are better than him and would not be players whose GM's would trade for Thomas straight up. MN wouldn't trade Rubio for him either, but I don't think I can argue him being better than IT in good faith.

That's not to say he isn't a good player. His forte is really scoring creatively and getting to the line, and his feisty attitude. But not sure about him being above average in other areas.

And I don't know why we keep having arguments about Tony Parker. He runs the NBA's best, most complex offense and he does it flawlessly. He was a legit MVP candidate As recently as last year
post #16952 of 19244
But Parker was second team all-NBA.

Guess all the basketball cognoscenti in here are smarter than those who see 100 basketball games a year.
post #16953 of 19244
the all NBA teams were total shit. it's more a popularity contest than anything. melo, dirk, and anthony davis should've been on the list but they were passed up for more popular players

i'm not saying parker's a bad player. imo he's average at best, but an average point guard in the world's best system is a pretty good point guard. this year he was worse than last year (but probably because he played less than 30 minutes a game). like i said spurs actually play a little better when he's off the court. patty mills was actually a better pg on a per minute basis.
post #16954 of 19244
thomas better than parker,
thanks the best joke i heard all week loool
post #16955 of 19244
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

the all NBA teams were total shit. it's more a popularity contest than anything. melo, dirk, and anthony davis should've been on the list but they were passed up for more popular players

i'm not saying parker's a bad player. imo he's average at best, but an average point guard in the world's best system is a pretty good point guard. this year he was worse than last year (but probably because he played less than 30 minutes a game). like i said spurs actually play a little better when he's off the court. patty mills was actually a better pg on a per minute basis.

Parker, average? Come on dude. He's a bit older, plays fewer minutes, but otherwise who wouldn't take him above Thomas for a single season?

The guy is quality, I hope you're not saying he's who he is because of the system, are you? Before their current system is what it is today, Parker was an all star and was on championship teams.
post #16956 of 19244
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

 this year he was worse than last year (but probably because he played less than 30 minutes a game). like i said spurs actually play a little better when he's off the court. patty mills was actually a better pg on a per minute basis.

What has a playing time to do with anything? Don't you think Parker played more challenging minutes in general than Mills? Parker was also injured most of the season and played despite of it.

 

He was nominated MVP of FIBA EuroBasket 2013, so much for your special Spurs system argument. 

post #16957 of 19244
he was also mvp of 2007 finals when spurs played a different offensive game, tony parker is a boss
post #16958 of 19244
I think Tony Parker is overrated when it comes to people saying he's a legitimate MVP candidate, but I think it's easy to underestimate his value to the Spurs and their system.

At the same time, I think it would be easy for GMs to underrate IT2 because he's such an atypical player. Like how a short QB's value is automatically dropped so far in the NFL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkDerm View Post

IT2 is a small, ball hogging guard, with poor defense. he's not CP3
Solution: Darren Collison! hahaha.
post #16959 of 19244
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

sorry winning isn't everything. luke walton has championship rings. parker is a liability on defense and his team actually plays slightly better when he's benched although that's a testament to the spurs more than anything

Parker has the multi-facitied ability to run a system offense, run an offense by himself when it breaks down, and also look for his own shot. winning isn't everything, but barely playing 30min/game (29.4min/game this season) is the reason his stats don't stack up per game average. But if you just look at his per 36min/game numbers then you can see he's up there with the other guys in an over-all sense.

if parker was playing like 35min and given free reign he'd have the stats that would "impress". but you're right he plays in a system and within himself and his game which is actually a good thing if you think about it. what if russell westbrook picked his spots more often? or what if CP3 would trust the system during end of game situations? what if steph curry or Dragic would step off the gas and go cerebral when the heat check shots aren't falling.

tony parker also has the ability to win a whole game by himself (by scoring 30-ish points and running and offense - if you remember the 2013 finals). definitely Westbrook Stephen Curry and CP3 can do that, and less so with Dragic (who's pretty much a 2 guard anyway).

stephen curry, Dragic and westbrook are combo guards. remember when dwyane wade was a "point guard" for the 1st 4 years of his career?

CP3 is very prototypical as a PG, but he's weirdly predictable and turns the offense into a clogged toilet set during crunch time (maybe he has trust issues with teammates and/or coach). CP3 has his own version of detrimental "hero ball" in crunch time.

Tony parker? he can actually do all those things, and most importantly just sit the fuck back and let his team do the work if its not happening. attributing the system to his success is an awesome thing - if it means results right? thats like saying peyton manning is overrated because he runs a no huddle and we should look to compare him with tony romo because they have similar stats.
post #16960 of 19244
Tony Parker went kind of hero ball that last Game 5 though which was odd. Fortunately, Manu was there being Manu
post #16961 of 19244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo_Version 7 View Post

Tony Parker went kind of hero ball that last Game 5 though which was odd. Fortunately, Manu was there being Manu

the times Tony goes hero-ball and isn't pulled by coach Pop it seems like its by design: where Pop says "fuck it... take over!" and lets parker run 5 pick and rolls in 24 second sets just to get free to slash to the hole for a floater/pull up jumper.

then the defense gets tired keeping up with parker and then they go back to slash and kick to mix it up.
post #16962 of 19244
Also until game 3 of thunder series Parker was by far the best player on the floor, including Portland series where he flat out destroyed Lilard and the whole Blazers team(who is supposedly better than Parker :S). After he got hurt he was less aggressive and less plays were run for him, but luckily other spurs played awesome after that.

also this garbage argument parker is a system pg is so damn stupid and gets really old. In 2005/2006 he puts up 19/6 shooting 55% from the floor playing 2nd gun to Duncan playing diff basketball than spurs now, not to mention he is solid in all his years after that season. Or dominates FIBA Eurobasket but apparently his current success is the result of spurs system...
post #16963 of 19244
Seems we are stuck in the same obsession that all league GM's are: youth trumps all and it clouds the conversation. The reasons a GM may rate a guy are much different than his effective value. Yeah, a GM may wish for Thomas as "piece" but it stops there, he is nowhere close to the same player.
post #16964 of 19244
Also if you watch spurs games the most points/assists Parker gets playing pick and roll with Duncan, then there are some drives to the basket after the switch or w/e, transition baskets and points scored of this double low screen that they play for him.

watch these two videos, most of the points here he can score playing with any team really.
many of these plays would work if he played with Gortat or Amir fucking Johnson
not now nor in the past his success was determined by him being a 'system player'...


Edited by wojt - 7/5/14 at 7:42am
post #16965 of 19244
ESPN is silly with its NBA FA news/hoopla, but there are a few interesting threads. There's a part of me that could see Carmelo coming to LA. If he wants a winning NBA culture, they have mucho titles, teaming up with Gasol would be ideal for him, and let's face it, LA is awesome and his wife has good connections there.

I find it shocking that an NBA player, however, would leave that much money on the table. This will be Melo's last max deal, so in terms of dollars he should stay in NYC.
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