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NBA 2014-2015 Season Thread - Page 726

post #10876 of 19241
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinman View Post

I may have missed a few, but there are at least 17 centers on your list and players are listed in no particular order, so even these voters don't necessarily think Parrish was a top-10 center of all time. Try again.

Wilt (I keep forgetting him...)
post #10877 of 19241
From an ESPN Insider piece about 3 trades that need to happen, by Jalen Rose. O, HAI JALEN ROSE!:
Quote:
1. C Dwight Howard from Los Angeles Lakers to Atlanta Hawks for Al Horford and Kyle Korver


Okay, a man can dream, right? I've been pushing this trade for months. There have been more scenarios surrounding Howard than an episode of "CSI" over the last month. To be sure, Howard's shown he can lead his team to a Finals appearance. But his approach to winning doesn't match Kobe Bryant's, and with the roster structured the way it is, Howard's skills will not be maximized by Mike D'Antoni. He needs room to operate; he needs to be the lead or at least a co-star of a team. In L.A. he won't be. In Atlanta, he would -- if he could be convinced to stay in his hometown.

When it comes to Horford, he is a proven winner at every level. His workman-like attitude would complement Bryant's ultracompetitive personality. Remember when the Lakers last acquired an All-Star big man at the trade deadline? Horford can have the same long-term impact that Pau Gasol did when he was acquired from Memphis in 2008. In Atlanta he's a power forward playing center. In L.A., he'd play the 4 and allow the 7-foot Gasol to move to the 5 but could spell Gasol there, too. Horford's a double-double player (18.97 PER) and at $12 million per year through 2015-16, he goes a long way toward alleviating the Lakers' cap problems.

Korver (64.7 percent true shooting percentage) is a bona fide 3-point threat. And at 6-foot-7, he is a knock-down shooter who can come off screens effectively.

Atlanta GM Danny Ferry gets the cornerstone piece he's been seeking. Remember, Ferry cut his teeth in the front offices of San Antonio and Cleveland, where he had David Robinson, Tim Duncan and LeBron James.

As for the Lakers, while Howard hasn't rounded into form after back surgery and a torn labrum, all signs indicate he'll eventually be 100 percent healthy and return to being one of the top 10 players in the league. But Bryant's made clear he doesn't view Howard's re-signing as crucial. Would you come back to a team where your best teammate thinks you're expendable?
post #10878 of 19241
I'm so happy jeff green is playing well.... because maybe we can actually trade him! devil.gif

brandon bass... probably has a 35in vertical leap and is near 6'9" but only shoots wide open jumpers, and has zero inside game. baldy[1].gif

hopefully tomorrow brings some interesting trades.
post #10879 of 19241
i was just thinking, if i was Dwight, my free agency year has been such a clusterfuck of drama, injury and immaturity that i might try to re-sign for one year, dominate 2014 then name my price.

with respect to the Jalen Rose piece that Rambo posted, my reaction was, i'm not sure Atlanta would even want to make that trade. Horford's a really nice piece, and he's not as good as Howard but has no drama, works hard, and i think he's signed long term.
post #10880 of 19241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post

Duncan's won 3 chips, Mavs 1.

Not.

Ok, if we're basing this on Championships then Robert Horry > Duncan/Dirk

Makes no sense, right?
post #10881 of 19241
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

i was just thinking, if i was Dwight, my free agency year has been such a clusterfuck of drama, injury and immaturity that i might try to re-sign for one year, dominate 2014 then name my price.

with respect to the Jalen Rose piece that Rambo posted, my reaction was, i'm not sure Atlanta would even want to make that trade. Horford's a really nice piece, and he's not as good as Howard but has no drama, works hard, and i think he's signed long term.

ffffuuuu.gif another year of will he/won't he drama for the 2014 with dwight? sign me up! talk about making a pressure cooker situation with kobe's last year too. would be epic for lakers fans to deal with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

Ok, if we're basing this on Championships then Robert Horry > Duncan/Dirk

Makes no sense, right?



44% better than jordan.

seriously though duncan is better than dirk by a long shot. just duncan's fundamental inside game, rebounds, and all nba defense alone makes him a more complete player than dirk. but then again when dirk is going offensively he did easily best, kobe/duncan/durrant/lebron/wade. he's just that unstoppable when playing normally/healty/in his prime. he's a bit like kobe though where you have to cater a team to dirk's strengths. duncan? you could probably put a d-league team around him and still win 50 games.
post #10882 of 19241
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawrenceMD View Post


seriously though duncan is better than dirk by a long shot. just duncan's fundamental inside game, rebounds, and all nba defense alone makes him a more complete player than dirk. but then again when dirk is going offensively he did easily best, kobe/duncan/durrant/lebron/wade. he's just that unstoppable when playing normally/healty/in his prime. he's a bit like kobe though where you have to cater a team to dirk's strengths. duncan? you could probably put a d-league team around him and still win 50 games.

By a long shot is a stretch. You can make an argument for either guy. Dirk's shooting compensates for much of what he lacks inside, and his inside game developed.

Both have been durable. Defensively Duncan is better. If I was forced to pick I would lean Duncan but by a hair.
post #10883 of 19241
Report: this is the most boring and overblown trade deadline in recent memory.

Make it end
post #10884 of 19241
Report: this is the most boring and overblown trade deadline in recent memory.

Make it end
post #10885 of 19241
Knicks, baby Knicks?

frown.gif
post #10886 of 19241
From Kevin Pelton:
Quote:
Kobe or Dwight? That's the question the Los Angeles Lakers might have to ask themselves today if they don't believe Dwight Howard will re-sign with the Lakers as a free agent this summer because of his reported icy relationship with Kobe Bryant.

Since a sign-and-trade deal would be unlikely, the Lakers risk Howard leaving after the season for nothing -- unless they deal him by the 3 p.m. ET deadline. So despite general manager Mitch Kupchak's insistence that the team will not trade Howard, the Lakers have to at least discuss the possibility internally. And that may come down to a choice between Howard or Bryant.

If the Lakers don't decide now, Howard will likely have the leverage this summer to force a decision, if he wants to -- teams such as Dallas, Atlanta and Houston are reportedly eager to bid for his talents when he reaches free agency. If Howard has other good options, then he can tell the Lakers: Kobe or me.

While the Lakers cannot trade Bryant without his consent (Bryant has a no-trade provision in his contract), they can twist his arm. At the same time, Bryant has a type of leverage too, as by far the most popular Laker since Magic Johnson and an iconic superstar.

But if Howard insists that the Lakers get rid of Bryant, they can -- the Lakers still have their amnesty rights, and Bryant is due to make more than $30 million next season, the last year of his contract. The Lakers would still have to pay him, but such a move might allow them to avoid the luxury tax, which would save them his entire salary in 2013-14 and tens of millions of dollars over the long term by dodging the stiffer "repeater" tax penalties in the new collective bargaining agreement.

Looming over everything is the summer of 2014. That's when the Lakers have timed the expiration of every contract on the books except Steve Nash's, giving them the opportunity to bid on a free-agent class that just happens to be headlined by one LeBron James.

The summer of 2010, when James signed with Miami, taught us two things about max free agency. First, star players are more likely to sign with teams that have cap space rather than working sign-and-trades to teams over the cap. Second, they want to land somewhere with an established star like the Heat's Dwyane Wade in order to maximize their chances of winning championships.

For the Lakers to answer the "Kobe or Dwight?" question, they need to decide which player will be a better player and bigger lure in 2014. Let's explore.

The Case for Dwight

This is obvious, right? When confronted with a choice between a 27-year-old star in his prime and an aging 34-year-old legend, the younger player is the right choice every time. Besides sentiment, there's nothing to favor Bryant over Howard going forward.

At best, Bryant has maybe three years left as an elite player; even his idol, Michael Jordan, was no longer capable of playing at an elite level when he returned to the NBA at age 38. And Jordan didn't have nearly the wear and tear that Bryant carries on his knees after entering the league directly out of high school. Bryant is already 13th in NBA history in minutes played. All the trips to Germany in the world can't entirely offset the effects of aging, and Howard will likely still be an All-Star when Bryant heads off to retirement.

Even in the worst season of his prime, while returning from back surgery and dealing with a painful shoulder labrum tear, Howard has put up All-Star statistics. The injuries are the most obvious explanation for Howard's inconsistency. Some nights he lacks the quickness and explosiveness that made him the NBA's premier post player. Other times, like Wednesday's 24-point, 12-rebound effort in an easy win over the Boston Celtics, show Howard's potential to change the Lakers when he's 100 percent. They're 10-5 this season when he scores at least 20 points.

Bryant is the Lakers' recent past, and right now he's also their present. However, Kupchak summed it up well Wednesday on "The Herd with Colin Cowherd" on ESPN Radio, saying "Dwight is our future."

Free agents will recognize the same thing. Beyond that, any star perimeter player joining Bryant will have to adjust to a Kobe-centric offense, as Nash has tried to do this season. Howard's game should fit better with that of anyone who joins him in L.A. as part of the next great Lakers team.

The Case for Kobe

Besides the fact that Bryant playing in anything but a Lakers uniform is borderline unthinkable, there are legitimate basketball reasons to defy the obvious answer and favor Bryant over Howard.

First, let's be clear that, no matter the age difference, Bryant today is the superior player. Not only has he performed better on a per-minute basis, but he has been a model of health while Howard has been in and out of the lineup. The combination means Bryant has been more than two wins more valuable than Howard this season per my WARP rating.

That rating still reflects an optimistic view of Howard's play this season. Plus-minus takes a dimmer view. The Lakers have scored more efficiently with Howard on the bench, according to 82games.com, despite the fact that their bench has been so ineffective, and have a better net rating (plus-6.6 points per 100 possessions) with Pau Gasol in the middle rather than Howard (plus-1.8).

Injuries might explain that, but Howard's full recovery is no sure thing. Back surgery for a superstar player is uncharted territory. Re-signing Howard represents a risk in its own right.

Bryant won't play forever, but that gives him the opportunity to hand control of the team to a star player the Lakers add in the summer of 2014. His all-encompassing desire to win might be much more appealing to some free agents than Howard's antics in the locker room and on the sideline.

There's also an intriguing possibility in the summer of 2014. Since Bryant will be a free agent himself, he could decide to prioritize the chase for another ring over another fat payday. (A sixth ring brings a measure of equality with Michael Jordan, who used titles as a criteria in ranking Bryant over LeBron James in Wright Thompson's MJ feature story at ESPN last week.) If Bryant takes a pay cut from his current $27.85 million salary down to, say, $10 million for one season, the Lakers would have enough flexibility for two max players on the payroll. The kicker? Bryant could double his salary by signing a new contract the following year, when the only hit to the Lakers would be a heftier luxury-tax bill.

The Verdict

Almost any other team in the league would love to have to choose between Bryant and Howard, but the decision would nearly be impossible for the Lakers to make.

Ultimately, sentiment aside, youth carries the day. The risk of Howard's injuries is not as troublesome as the inevitability of Bryant aging, and prospective 2014 free agents are smart enough to recognize that their window of championship contention would be larger with Howard as a teammate than Bryant.

The Lakers have to hope that it never comes to that and that their future includes both Bryant and Howard -- along with whomever else they can add to the roster after next season.
post #10887 of 19241
^ great read. Dwight is still a poon
post #10888 of 19241
Hardly any moves on trade deadline.

Looks like the new cap rules are stunting moves. Draft picks are worth a lot more than they have ever been.
post #10889 of 19241
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

Knicks, baby Knicks?

frown.gif

Indiana detsroyed them yesterday. Indiana pretty much owns NY and Miami this year, they are too physical for both of those teams. This Indiana team is like the old school bruising Pacers of Miller, Smits, the Davis boys etc. while NY and Miami have been getting smaller. Not sure what the answer is but I am not crazy about Woodson's insistence on playing his 7-8 guys regardless of what is going on. They looked real slow yesterday. He had Copeland on the bench, who is instant offense and White, who is very athletic but those guys did not see any light. They are going to need Wallace if they face Indiana in the playoffs and I don't think he is coming back.
post #10890 of 19241
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

Indiana detsroyed them yesterday. Indiana pretty much owns NY and Miami this year, they are too physical for both of those teams. This Indiana team is like the old school bruising Pacers of Miller, Smits, the Davis boys etc. while NY and Miami have been getting smaller. Not sure what the answer is but I am not crazy about Woodson's insistence on playing his 7-8 guys regardless of what is going on. They looked real slow yesterday. He had Copeland on the bench, who is instant offense and White, who is very athletic but those guys did not see any light. They are going to need Wallace if they face Indiana in the playoffs and I don't think he is coming back.

Except for Roy Hibbert who fouled out in 18 mins. Tyson Chandler owned him.
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