or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Culture › Entertainment and Culture › NBA 2014-2015 Season Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

NBA 2014-2015 Season Thread - Page 673

post #10081 of 17673
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

I don't think the Celtics should do that. KG and Pierce easily have 3 years in them,

lol8[1].gif

I'm a huge celtics fan, but I know that KG and Pierce are on borrowed time.... I also believe Kobe is too..... its going to happen sooner rather than later. Unless Pierce requests it... he's not going to be traded for history/legacy sake. KG will retire soon, but I wouldn't rule out him Okaying a trade to a contender.

I LOVE rondo, but his trade value now is at its highest, so if there's a time to trade its now. Cousins is interesting... but I really don't mind them blowing it up... lean years a reality that the new salary cap restrictions cause.
post #10082 of 17673
Thread Starter 
I don't see Pierce and KG with 3 more years in them. Pierce is alsready struggling and KG is kind of slipping these days, the only thing that hasnt aged with KG is his mouth.

They do need to rebuild soon but i think they can keep Rondo and kind of build around him. Whats the contracts for KG and PP looking? How many years does each have and how much is owed? Those two doesnt seem like someone who would retire unless forced by injury but they might be able to take a veterans minimu for the Celts if it opens up the cap for a good player to come?


Ive wanted to ask this for a while now but do you guys consider Doc a good coach? I mean most are saying he is one of the best but i just dont see it. Some broadcaster even deemed him to be one of the greatest once said and done and i really cant see why. The Celts were terrible (worst team in the L?) before KG and Ray got there and even though theyve been a contender ever since, I am not sure Doc had much to do with it and now he is struggling to keep them above .500.

Once the key players are gone they arent contending much anymore and might even miss the playoffs in a weak conference. I wouldnt even rank him in the top 5 in the active coaches in the league right now.

What do you guys think?
post #10083 of 17673
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

I don't see Pierce and KG with 3 more years in them. Pierce is alsready struggling and KG is kind of slipping these days, the only thing that hasnt aged with KG is his mouth.
They do need to rebuild soon but i think they can keep Rondo and kind of build around him. Whats the contracts for KG and PP looking? How many years does each have and how much is owed? Those two doesnt seem like someone who would retire unless forced by injury but they might be able to take a veterans minimu for the Celts if it opens up the cap for a good player to come?
Ive wanted to ask this for a while now but do you guys consider Doc a good coach? I mean most are saying he is one of the best but i just dont see it. Some broadcaster even deemed him to be one of the greatest once said and done and i really cant see why. The Celts were terrible (worst team in the L?) before KG and Ray got there and even though theyve been a contender ever since, I am not sure Doc had much to do with it and now he is struggling to keep them above .500.
Once the key players are gone they arent contending much anymore and might even miss the playoffs in a weak conference. I wouldnt even rank him in the top 5 in the active coaches in the league right now.
What do you guys think?

doc is an awesome coach... especially when he got a competent team around him. think about last year. that team really wasn't that good but it was the little things like game management that almost got them into the finals.

doc is just like any other NBA coach though... if you have a great team. then the team basically dictates 90% of the record. Thats the way it is with the NBA.

phil jackson was only as good as the team around him.

vinny del negro will be a huge factor in the clippers eventual turmoil deep into this years playoffs.
post #10084 of 17673
^^ Just remember the Celtic last lean years stretch, it lasted almost all of the 90's.
post #10085 of 17673
lol doc rivers ex clipper
post #10086 of 17673
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawrenceMD View Post

doc is an awesome coach... especially when he got a competent team around him. think about last year. that team really wasn't that good but it was the little things like game management that almost got them into the finals.

doc is just like any other NBA coach though... if you have a great team. then the team basically dictates 90% of the record. Thats the way it is with the NBA.

phil jackson was only as good as the team around him.

vinny del negro will be a huge factor in the clippers eventual turmoil deep into this years playoffs.

I still think VDN is a terrible coach, those Utah games could been handled better.

But with Phil, i see him as a good coach because if he didnt coach the Bulls, MJ might not have won 6 titles, maybe 1 or 2.

Phil couldnt do much w/o Shaq but granted Kobe with Kwame and Smush is a lot worse than Rondo, KG, Pierce, Terry, Bass, Green, etc... Even last year, the roster was still solid and could make a good run because of defense. Pop is still the best coach right now with what he has done with the team, Celts is just as talented this year I have a feeling Pop could probably make the Celts be like the Spurs is right now. Thibodeau is also one of the best coach with what the team has done w/o Rose, last year and this season (though they are losing again).

I dont know, i just dont see how great Doc is. Remove KG and the Celts will probably be right there with the Bobcats and Wizards because KG pretty much brought defense philosophy to the team. I mean he isnt as bad as Mike Brown who literally rode Lebrins coattails but i just dont see him being "great" as most are labeling him to be.
post #10087 of 17673
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

I still think VDN is a terrible coach, those Utah games could been handled better.
But with Phil, i see him as a good coach because if he didnt coach the Bulls, MJ might not have won 6 titles, maybe 1 or 2.
Phil couldnt do much w/o Shaq but granted Kobe with Kwame and Smush is a lot worse than Rondo, KG, Pierce, Terry, Bass, Green, etc... Even last year, the roster was still solid and could make a good run because of defense. Pop is still the best coach right now with what he has done with the team, Celts is just as talented this year I have a feeling Pop could probably make the Celts be like the Spurs is right now. Thibodeau is also one of the best coach with what the team has done w/o Rose, last year and this season (though they are losing again).
I dont know, i just dont see how great Doc is. Remove KG and the Celts will probably be right there with the Bobcats and Wizards because KG pretty much brought defense philosophy to the team. I mean he isnt as bad as Mike Brown who literally rode Lebrins coattails but i just dont see him being "great" as most are labeling him to be.

^right now rick carlisle is the best coach in the nba. popovich still had the advantage of having that big three (which even included duncan and david robinson at one time). what he does with rosters is amazing. then again he uses all the advanced analytics to his advantage - which naturally will even out with the hiring of analytics guys now a trend in the NBA by other teams.

doc is a master of after time out last second set plays, excellent at roster changes, and works well with vets, he is actually a defense first coach and it was him and tom thibodeau that developed the quazi-zone scheme defenses that the celtics use to this day. he did well in orlando winning coach of the year but was still hampered by thinking you can run a nba team with an 11man rotation. Once he figured out how to use 8-9man rotations his teams started to win/go deep into the playoffs.

again in the NBA its all about superstar based teams though, I believe jordan would won 5 championships with the rosters he had with a scarecrow on the sidelines. His time was coming either way with the aging pistons/celtics dynasties, and magic getting HIV and retiring.

phil jackson is a great coach, but he always won with the best teams and the best rosters. even in 2010 that lakers team was absolutely stacked with excellent role players and 3 blue chip players in bynum, gasol, and bryant. and when he lost in the finals? he had teams that were arguably better and lost control of his players (2004), or got outcoached 2008.
post #10088 of 17673
i agree, doc is a good coach. and a good guy too. and you guys know how big a celtics hater i am
post #10089 of 17673
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

^^ Just remember the Celtic last lean years stretch, it lasted almost all of the 90's.

late 80's were lost to len bias dying.

then they ended up sticking with aging veterans that would obviously not be able to win a chip...

early 90's had a lot of potential but reggie lewis died.

from there they made mistake after mistake in the draft (or trading blue chip draft picks) like chauncy billlups. and signing huge conrtacts to facepalm.gif players like barros/vin baker/and ffffuuuu.gif

but the 90's were the salary boom and you had to pay for players potential or get burned... even if the odds are you'll be burned.

the way the salary cap era in the NBA works is that either you contend quickly or blow up the team to create massive cap space to sign a superstar. you can trade for a superstar but odds are its an aging superstar or a very flawed one. the great equalizer is if you hit gold with a draft pick. the lakers/knicks/celtics always had the advantage of owners willing to go over the cap and pay luxury tax... but that is going to end soon with very restrictive almost hard caps (it will likely break up the heats big three in the next two years).
post #10090 of 17673
Thread Starter 
I just don't see MJ winning 5 w/o Phil, the triangle really made it easier to win w/o a great PG or a dominant center. Also keep in mind Jordan also couldn't win w/o Pippen but those two alone, I just can't see them winning that many,

As for the 2004 stacked team, the team imploded and nothing anyone could have done would make that team win. We all knew what happened afterwards. I'm not sure if he got outcoached in 2008, those were good games and Bynum was very limited. They got spanked by the better team that year, who is the Celtics who started the "Big 3" trend with a developing Rondo. They also had a whole year to meld together while Pau came in Feb iirc, 4 months before the playoffs.

I agree though, for the most part it is the players that helps coaches but you can also see by Brown and DAntoni and Avery that is it still takes good coaching to win with good players. I think Spoelstra is an average coach that is still likely being coached from the back by Riley who has the benefit of getting the biggest stars in his team.

I'm not sure I'd put Carlisle up there with Pop, he should be able to get more out of his team this year. Sure Dirks been hurt but they still got talent, Brand, Kaman, Collison, Mayo, etc... but every time I watch them they are getting buried, the games aren't even closed. Even the Bobcats has been leading against their opponent by double digits before throwing the game away but Dallas is a big mess right now. I'd probably put Scott Brooks ahead of him right now, the Thunder is consistently moving up the ladders and a title contender now with young and talented players but to manage and build that team on his helm has been great.


Back to Doc though, again I think he is a good coach but plenty are saying he will go down as one of the best once it is said and done but I just don't see it.
post #10091 of 17673
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

Back to Doc though, again I think he is a good coach but plenty are saying he will go down as one of the best once it is said and done but I just don't see it.

nah doc isn't going to be a best ever type of coach. he's an excellent coach that can bring the best out of a good roster, but he's not a best ever candidate. its kind of like when announcers start saying kurt warner is in the mix for best ever QB... maybe for some years he was at that level, but career wise no way - but announcers will still cream their pants over his back story and because he's such a nice guy - just like doc rivers.
post #10092 of 17673
I like Doc, think he is very good at managing personalities and getting his team to buy into what he is doing. Phil is obviously a good coach, but he has had the tremendous benefit of coaching to of the greatest individual and team players that have ever played the game. Both players were tailor made for the Triangle system. I'd like to see him coach a team and have success without the dominant guard (Nets?) that he had in Kobe and Jordan. Pop has also won a lot of game with a roster that typically includes 2-3 starters that you have never heard of, but he has had the same team basically for the last 20 years. To me, for the time that I have been watching basketball (since late 80's/early 90's), Riley to me has been the best coach. In LA, he had Magic running showtime and those were always talented teams (Worthy, Jabbar, Scott, Cooper, AC, etc etc). He came to the Knicks, which was a team with 1 star and a bunch of CBA rejects, totally changed how he coached LA (had everyone in NY buy into an extreme defensive philosophy) and every year he was coaching squeezed out 10-15 more wins than those Knicks teams rightfully deserved to have. Also, he is very underrated in how he handled/got the most out of his players. If there is another coach that has coached two different teams like this with success, I am not aware of it.
post #10093 of 17673
Thread Starter 
I don't think he is underrated at all, I thought it was well regarded how he gets talents out of his players. Pretty much gave Wade his first ring. RIley has been said to be the best of the best, probably top 5 of all time easily.
post #10094 of 17673
Quote:
Originally Posted by jet View Post

lol doc rivers ex clipper

I thought this was your new team, Jet?

Jackson
Auerbach
Riley/Pop
Doc
post #10095 of 17673
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

I'm not sure I'd put Carlisle up there with Pop, he should be able to get more out of his team this year. Sure Dirks been hurt but they still got talent, Brand, Kaman, Collison, Mayo, etc... but every time I watch them they are getting buried, the games aren't even closed.

I think they're in the same league for sure. Carlisle's prep is second to none. His team is much weaker than you portray. Brand? You mean the guy that scores 4 a night and is on nobody's fantasy radar? I'd grab Biyombo from Charlotte before Brand. Kaman is been ok. Marion has been stable. But no way he's got a winning team there. Dirk needs some games. Collison seems afraid to breakout. Mayo needs to learn how to play with Dirk. They would be very fortunate to get an 8 seed.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Entertainment and Culture
Styleforum › Forums › Culture › Entertainment and Culture › NBA 2014-2015 Season Thread