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NBA 2012-2013 Season Thread - Page 619

post #9271 of 11862
11/2/12 at 4:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post


Now if you say trade Harden for CP3/DWill, PGs that can pass, score behind the 3, make free throws and just create their own shots, then that is a much better deal and those players can adapt better because they do not have to score but they can if needed and from practically anywhere in the court. But that is a whole new, different discussion.

This is kind of the point though. It might have been, as you say, smarter for Harden to have taken $55M and a good shot at a ring, over come what may. But what happens three months from now, when Donald Sterling decides he doesn't want to pay Chris Paul and the Clippers are looking to do a sign and trade for an affordable contract? Even if that scenario doesn't play out, if Harden signed the contract offered he would have been the Thunder's trade bait for the next 4 years. Accepting a low-ball offer from a team that is committed to you to win a championship is one thing, but that doesn't seem to have been the case here.

This is the CBA working as intended spreading talent more widely throughout the league.
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post #9272 of 11862
11/2/12 at 5:26am
^thats the irony... because the thunder were in essence a SUPERTEAM! and a young superteam at that.

so the new CBA did actually win out in the end... they spread out the blue chip players... one from a super team to a lower tier team. devil.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post

OK Guys, respectfully deadhorse-a.gif

a quick question.... is blake griffin overrated? devil.gif

another one..... is blake griffin turning out to be a huge asshole? he does those annoying staredowns for every slight thing that doesn't go his way... often to the detriment of his team... he'll actually stop and do a 5-10 second staredown an official/opposing player during a live play because he felt slighted. devil.gif
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post #9273 of 11862
11/2/12 at 6:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

Sounds like your making up some stuff there. Presti never gave an "ultimatum", at least not from what I read at least. As far as I know, Harden wanted $60mil, OKCs initial offer was $52mil and it went up to $55mil and Harden still didn't budge. OKC had the option to let him walk in the summer or trade him mid-season or trade him now. There isn't any hostage taking if you think about it because Presti knows Harden won't sign and they are willing to let him go, they aren't losing their 2 best players so obviously they didn't feel it was enough of a threat. Different situation with Howard where he flipped-flopped and kept promising different things, they were willing to let him walk anyways so why not wait out for a better trade? So it is just about putting that out there that Harden is open for trade and he'd have teams lining up with offers, probably better ones that they would have gotten with Martin, maybe an offensive post threat?
It wasn't all Hardens choice, he either signs the extension or he doesn't. The team he is traded to doesn't guarantee him resigning, you think if he was traded to the Bobcats or Warriors that it is guaranteed he'd resign? My guess is he won't and he'd play the year out and then make his pick of teams next summer for max contract. That is guarranteed money but if your choice is the Bobcats or a plethora of other teams that will sign him for max contract a year later, I say that i worth the wait. Yes he knows his worth and what he could get but OKC didn't have to trade him and he didn't know he'd get traded right away either.
All I'm saying is it isn't as simple as Harden going for more money as most are saying and act like turning down more money to win a championship is completely out of the question. Fact is Harden was traded first and then offered that max extension but none was really guaranteed (none reported) whether the Rockets were going to offer him max or if Harden would even resign with them.
Back to the game at hand though, good game and maybe OKC should have traded Westbrook. lol8[1].gif But damn Parker with back to back winning baskets in back to back games.
I wouldn't call it making stuff up, making inferences sounds better lol8[1].gif I mean, none of us were there, but how else do we explain Presti making the trade while they were supposed to be in the middle of contract negotiations?

and I actually agree with Presti pulling the trigger before it became obvious that Harden was going to become a FA and torpedoing his trade value - that's what I meant by being held hostage.

anyway, the OKC opener illustrates perfectly what I see as a typical Kevin Martin game. I'm sure he had decent scoring, but didn't it seem like he had no presence on the floor? I only noticed him when he hit an open shot after being passed the ball? I give him credit for tying the game with a 3 near the end, but Durant got him open by taking all the attention. if that's all he's going to contribute then he has even less value than Shane Battier, who does all that plus play defense.

and this kid Damian Lillard can play.
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post #9274 of 11862
11/2/12 at 6:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawrenceMD View Post

a quick question.... is blake griffin overrated? devil.gif
another one..... is blake griffin turning out to be a huge asshole? he does those annoying staredowns for every slight thing that doesn't go his way... often to the detriment of his team... he'll actually stop and do a 5-10 second staredown an official/opposing player during a live play because he felt slighted. devil.gif
hehehe...you'll get us started again with the Cali fanbois

I dunno about Blake, those staredowns are really annoying and other players seem to enjoy giving him extra hard fouls - don't know if that's because his attitude infuriates them or they are just trying to intimidate a young guy. but he seems like a good guy otherwise, maybe he's like Tim Duncan - good person but has some really annoying expressions/behaviors on the court.
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post #9275 of 11862
11/2/12 at 7:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

I wouldn't call it making stuff up, making inferences sounds better lol8[1].gif I mean, none of us were there, but how else do we explain Presti making the trade while they were supposed to be in the middle of contract negotiations?
and I actually agree with Presti pulling the trigger before it became obvious that Harden was going to become a FA and torpedoing his trade value - that's what I meant by being held hostage.
anyway, the OKC opener illustrates perfectly what I see as a typical Kevin Martin game. I'm sure he had decent scoring, but didn't it seem like he had no presence on the floor? I only noticed him when he hit an open shot after being passed the ball? I give him credit for tying the game with a 3 near the end, but Durant got him open by taking all the attention. if that's all he's going to contribute then he has even less value than Shane Battier, who does all that plus play defense.
and this kid Damian Lillard can play.

He made the trade because he saw the writing on the wall. He did it early rather than have it be a distraction all season long.

I didnt think Martin looked that bad, he made some nice cuts and seemed to be in the flow of the offense considering he's only been there a few days. Everyone knows he's pretty one dimensional. And hitting a tying 3 is a pretty big contribution.

Lamb didnt play last night, but I think the trade is boom or bust depending on what he does.

Fuck ya, Lillard looked great against LA. Dion Waiters looked great as well.
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post #9276 of 11862
11/2/12 at 7:29am
I didn't mean to imply that Martin played bad, that would be unfair. I guess what I mean is that he looked like a role player instead of someone who could take over. but it's his first game, we'll see - he needs to be the guy who leads the team when all the starters are resting, that's the only way they'll beat LA (by putting some distance when LA's top 4 aren't on the floor)
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post #9277 of 11862
11/2/12 at 7:32am
you guys talking too much shit. Harden did what 99.9% of people in his situation would have done. No need to overanalyze.

My bold predictions:

1. Houston will end up 5-6 in the West this year and will be the team no one wants to face in the first round.

2. OKC will not make the Conference Finals and will not win a chip with Westbrook as the #1 shot taker.


Lakers will look very beatable as long as they stick with the princeton offense. Miami still looks like team to beat and my Knicks, well, is there any chance they don't get blown out tonight frown.gif Stoudamire already out for weeks, I guess he couldn't handle Hakeem's dream shake moves, maybe he'll be able to suit up for more than 20 games this season. At least we have Marcus Camby and Kurt Thomas as back ups. And Carmelo is going to be a better ball distributor and have a career year rolleyes.gif
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post #9278 of 11862
11/2/12 at 8:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

you guys talking too much shit. Harden did what 99.9% of people in his situation would have done. No need to overanalyze.
My bold predictions:
1. Houston will end up 5-6 in the West this year and will be the team no one wants to face in the first round.
2. OKC will not make the Conference Finals and will not win a chip with Westbrook as the #1 shot taker.
Lakers will look very beatable as long as they stick with the princeton offense. Miami still looks like team to beat and my Knicks, well, is there any chance they don't get blown out tonight frown.gif Stoudamire already out for weeks, I guess he couldn't handle Hakeem's dream shake moves, maybe he'll be able to suit up for more than 20 games this season. At least we have Marcus Camby and Kurt Thomas as back ups. And Carmelo is going to be a better ball distributor and have a career year rolleyes.gif
Do you know if the Garden will take back the Jeremy Lin shirts I bought for my daughters?
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post #9279 of 11862
11/2/12 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

1. Houston will end up 5-6 in the West this year and will be the team no one wants to face in the first round.

 

I think too many people are over-reacting to one game here. Have you looked at this Rockets roster? They have 3 good players and then it drops off dramatically. Almost half their team is rookies and second year players.

 

There are 7 guaranteed playoff teams in the west this year (Spurs, Lakers, Thunder, Nuggets, Clippers, Grizzlies, Jazz) barring major injuries or trades. Houston is most definitely not on the level of any of those teams. They can maybe get the 8th spot, but I honestly doubt they will even reach 35 wins.

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post #9280 of 11862
11/2/12 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

you guys talking too much shit. Harden did what 99.9% of people in his situation would have done. No need to overanalyze.
My bold predictions:
1. Houston will end up 5-6 in the West this year and will be the team no one wants to face in the first round.
2. OKC will not make the Conference Finals and will not win a chip with Westbrook as the #1 shot taker.
Lakers will look very beatable as long as they stick with the princeton offense. Miami still looks like team to beat and my Knicks, well, is there any chance they don't get blown out tonight frown.gif Stoudamire already out for weeks, I guess he couldn't handle Hakeem's dream shake moves, maybe he'll be able to suit up for more than 20 games this season. At least we have Marcus Camby and Kurt Thomas as back ups. And Carmelo is going to be a better ball distributor and have a career year rolleyes.gif

I think that offense is getting trashed a bit more than it should.

I do recognize the places where it lacks and doesnt play to some players strengths. But against Portland, I did see some pretty nice plays happen. Gasol looks really at ease within it. Nash, not so much. If by game 15 its not clicking they'll have a problem but I think it needs more time.
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post #9281 of 11862
11/2/12 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

Not always the case. There is still something to be said about best friends winning together, RW, KD and Harden are all young guys and practically grew up in the NBA in the past 3-4 years. I think that chip will mean more and the chemistry between that team full of friends are simply much better. Look at the Lakers Super Team of Kobe, Shaq, Malone and Payton, terrible chemistry and int he end they just imploded and couldn't win it all. Shaq & Kobe eventually hated each other that caused the demise of that dynasty.
As great Kobe is, dude just doesn't have the social skills to make great friends so basketball is his best friend, really up to you if that is how you want to run your life. Kobe might be a special case though, I guess. A big superstar with no friends.
Also, I don't really see the big deal with Harden giving up that much money to be with his friends and a chance to win a championship, Lebron, Wade & Bosh each gave up $15mil in their contract to play together and win and have fun doing it and chances are Wade will not have anything left in the tank (he already seems on the down spiral) to make up what he gave up with another huge contract after this one expires but hey he did it for more championship and got yo have some respect for that.
i think you kind of made my point. payton, malone, kobe and shaq actively hated each other but still were the second best team in basketball ... and probably would have been the best ifmalone hadn't gone down. kobe and shaq were poison and won rings. kobe by himself is not an easy case, but wins rings. bidness is bidness. just because you don't like someone doesn't mean you can't work together toward a common goal ... particularly when there are millions involved. heck, i do it for thousands.
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post #9282 of 11862
11/2/12 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

I think that offense is getting trashed a bit more than it should.
I do recognize the places where it lacks and doesnt play to some players strengths. But against Portland, I did see some pretty nice plays happen. Gasol looks really at ease within it. Nash, not so much. If by game 15 its not clicking they'll have a problem but I think it needs more time.
yup. i think the clips are going to be the better team until January. Then we'll have to see what happens. the lakes show signs of being brilliant, but they're still forcing the offense and one step late on defense. if they can gel, look out world. i've gotta say i've been MUCH more impressed with Howard than I expected to be.
and as for the princeton offense.
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post #9283 of 11862
11/2/12 at 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodguy View Post

yup. i think the clips are going to be the better team until January. Then we'll have to see what happens. the lakes show signs of being brilliant, but they're still forcing the offense and one step late on defense. if they can gel, look out world. i've gotta say i've been MUCH more impressed with Howard than I expected to be.
and as for the princeton offense.

spam[1].gif edinalert
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post #9284 of 11862
11/2/12 at 11:50am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodguy View Post

i think you kind of made my point. payton, malone, kobe and shaq actively hated each other but still were the second best team in basketball ... and probably would have been the best ifmalone hadn't gone down. kobe and shaq were poison and won rings. kobe by himself is not an easy case, but wins rings. bidness is bidness. just because you don't like someone doesn't mean you can't work together toward a common goal ... particularly when there are millions involved. heck, i do it for thousands.

I never said it couldn't work, obviously it has and likely happens all the time, Jordan was hated by most his teammates too. What I am saying is it isn't out of the question to take less money and that is why I said "not always the case". I never fully disregarded your comments, I just offered an alternative.

Look at peoples reaction about Harden taking less money, like it is a sacrilege to do, like it has never happened before.

And with that AllStar Laker team, they may have been the second best team that year but anything less than a championship is a failure.

My main point with that post is it isn't always about money and other have taken millions to win a championship and/or to try and win with your best friends.

Never said you have to be best friends to win big, it would just mean more if you did and it is a rare occurrence to get a chance to play and win a chip with your friends if all of you are superstars.

I don't blame Harden for holding out for more money but I still stand OKCs decision sucked and they'll regret that trade or not offering Harden the max.


Whatever though, I've said my piece on the Harden, OKC, taking less money, etc... everyone wants to disagree, oh well. I stand by what I said but I'll just bow out now before the hair pulling and eye scratching begins.
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post #9285 of 11862
11/2/12 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

Do you know if the Garden will take back the Jeremy Lin shirts I bought for my daughters?

They are only allowing exchanges for vintage Pat Cummings shirts.

Allegedly the Garden has told employees that cannot come into work due to Sandy will be docked vacation days.
Quote:
In order to ensure that we continue operating our business and are able to deliver the very best experience for our customers, we are asking employees to come to work.We recognize that many employees are impacted by the transportation issues as well as a lack of power, and that some are even dealing with personal damage and health issues. In the event that you need to make the personal decision that you are unable to come to work, you will need to notify your supervisor and take a personal or vacation day to cover the time off.



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/madison-square-garden-company-allegedly-tells-employees-that-missing-work-today-will-cost-them-vacation-days-2012-11#ixzz2B5pt9Tva
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