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Deadlifts with lifting gloves - Page 8

post #106 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleeboy View Post
Next time your in the gym, look at the differences in strength of a squatter over a DL. If they are doing the same weight, the squatter will be much stronger in most other lifts.

of course they are you idiot!

if someones benching the same as i squat, then i'd have to assume that they're stronger than me in the other lifts!

or are you one of those people whose bench=squat=deadlift?
post #107 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
of course they are you idiot!

if someones benching the same as i squat, then i'd have to assume that they're stronger than me in the other lifts!

or are you one of those people whose bench=squat=deadlift?

Quoted for being a moron.

Let me type this out again.

If I squat 100 kg and you dead lift 100 kg. I'm most certainly a stronger individual than you. Guaranteed here. You either believe it, or refute it. It's my experience and from what I've seen.

Comprende?

And PL?? Do you think you're a pro?

I'm talking about regular numbers here. See above example.
post #108 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleeboy View Post
Quoted for being a moron.

Let me type this out again.

If I squat 100 kg and you dead lift 100 kg. I'm most certainly a stronger individual than you. Guaranteed here. You either believe it, or refute it. It's my experience and from what I've seen.

Comprende?

And PL?? Do you think you're a pro?

I'm talking about regular numbers here. See above example.


what you said was like saying "if person x can bench as much as person y squats, i bet person x is much stronger than person y".

of course they are.

You should be able to deadlift more than you squat.
So why does that make the squat more effective than the deadlift?

if doesn't, because they're different lifts working different muscles.

Most people can bench more than they can military press, does that make the bench press less effective than the military press?

no. they're different exercises working different muscles.


BTW i really don't know anyone who can deadlift a decent amount but can't do a pullup.
post #109 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleeboy View Post

If I squat 100 kg and you dead lift 100 kg. I'm most certainly a stronger individual than you. Guaranteed here. You either believe it, or refute it. It's my experience and from what I've seen.

what?

Anyway, plenty of people squat more than they deadlift, so you are wrong.

edit: http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/records/raw/world

ALL raw (wrapped) squat records except 123lb class are higher than the raw dead records, QED.
post #110 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
BTW i really don't know anyone who can deadlift a decent amount but can't do a pullup.

This. I've never met anyone who can pull 2x bodyweight (the absolute minimum i would call "big numbers") that can't do a pullup. They might exist, but even if they do, what is the point? Do you see any mechanical similarities to a pullup? One is a hip extension with mostly isometric contraction of the back and activates 90-ish% of the muscles in your body. The other is a wholly upper-body-pull in a totally different plane. What is the point of all these useless comparisons.

The only meaningful comparison so far has been squats to deads (which is a good topic for debate, see Lou Simmons), everything else is a waste of breath, and please note none of them have to do with the thread topic.
post #111 of 137
double
post #112 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleeboy View Post
I have seen plenty of guys who can put up big numbers on the DL... but can't even do a single pull-up.

Did you really just use that example?
post #113 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleeboy View Post
I've never used one of them machines. I do imagine that these are very simple. As you can do them naturally, you have strong hammies
The "machines" are basically a way to lock your feet down and give you a pivot point above the knee. They make the whole thing a lot less awkward, but most gyms don't have one. It's not really that much easier either.

Quote:
How tall are you? I know the correct set-up and what feels natural for the DL. I have long arms and long legs, so when I set up with the bar at my shins, I have very little flexion. To adjust this to an unnatural flexion angle would be disasterous. So, due to my levers, the DL is a hamstring exercise.
About 6', arms are not terribly long for my height. Deads end up being a hip/back lift for me, never been limited by my legs and I've certainly never felt much of anything in my hamstrings. But I do lots of specific hamstring work, so they're likely strong enough to not feel the limited engagement from a deadlift. A stiff legged deadlift works the hammies like crazy, so I'm imagining your setup involves your legs being much straighter than mine (or than ideal) when the pull starts. You may just have a wacky hip/leg setup which could make deads hard, but I don't believe this is a general rule for tall people. Some of the best deadlifters in the world are tall.
Quote:
I will disagree with this point. The DL and Squat are PSC exercises that work the lower body in addition to the upper back. For long limbed people, the DL has very little to offer.
How does a squat engage your upper back, other than the bar sitting there? It's not involved in the motion at all, doesn't even stabilize anything significant.

You've got a pulling exercise vs a pushing exercise. They're really not that similar, go look at the list of muscles engaged in a deadlift vs a squat. There's quite a few that are only involved in one of the two. Deads work your back, squats don't.

Quote:
Pulling big numbers here does not equate to strength as much as a squat. I stand by this firmly as the strength carry overs from the DL compared to squat are lower in my experience.

Next time your in the gym, look at the differences in strength of a squatter over a DL. If they are doing the same weight, the squatter will be much stronger in most other lifts.
So what? Is that supposed to be meaningful? It's the same as my military press vs bench example, someone pressing 225 lbs is going to be stronger in general than someone who benches 225 lbs. But they're both useful exercises, same as squats and deadlifts. There's no reason to make it either/or, especially since deads and squats don't even primarily work the same muscles. If deads are easier than squats for you, uh, good, add more weight to your deadlifts and be happy your total just increased.
post #114 of 137
post #115 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Deads work your back, squats don't.

Both require isometric contraction of the back to transmit the lifting forces from your hips and legs. They both work your back hard.

--Andre
post #116 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf View Post
what?

Anyway, plenty of people squat more than they deadlift, so you are wrong.

edit: http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/records/raw/world

ALL raw (wrapped) squat records except 123lb class are higher than the raw dead records, QED.

If by "squat records are higher than dead records" you mean the exact opposite, then you are correct.
From your link (just a few to get the idea):
123: 606 to 617
181: 710 to 791
242: 853 to 887
Sq to DL
post #117 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajak View Post
If by "squat records are higher than dead records" you mean the exact opposite, then you are correct.
From your link (just a few to get the idea):
123: 606 to 617
181: 710 to 791
242: 853 to 887
Sq to DL

Uggghhhh self-fail

Well, at least some of them are higher
post #118 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxtrot56 View Post

Who are you implying is idiotic?

Just to clarify, there are two schools of thought here:

1. Dead lift is King
2. Squat is King

I am saying that is a person squats 100Kg and the other person dead lifts 100Kg (they don't do both as they are hardcore advocates of each), then the person who squats is stronger than the person who deadlifts due to the carry over effects. I stand by this.

They are two different lifts, but if you think about it, they are quite similar. They both work the back, hamstrings, glutes and quads. However, due to larger distance between the floor and the weight, the squat activates more muscles to be able to keep the weight stable.

Fact... squats are harder and hurt much more than dead lifts.
post #119 of 137
Squats are little better, but both are compound lifts and are absolutely essential to any workout. Arguing which one is better is pointless, they are both essential. But that is not what I was referring to as stupid, although this argument is a little stupid.
post #120 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
well, i'm lifting 2.5x bw.


chalk is great, i use it for everything.

agreed....
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