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Brazilian Jiu Jitsu: Royce Gracie vs. Kung Fu master - Page 3

post #31 of 88
If all you want out of what your learning is self defense then your probably better off taking an actual course geared at self defense. If you want fitness, health, or sports benefits as well then you should take something else based on your individual needs and tastes.
post #32 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradstudent78
If all you want out of what your learning is self defense then your probably better off taking an actual course geared at self defense. If you want fitness, health, or sports benefits as well then you should take something else based on your individual needs and tastes.

I agree with this completely. However, I've taught self-defense classes, and must stress that what is taught are basic (and effective) forms to defend oneself against aggressors who do not expect you to defend yourself vigorously (it's worth mentioning that most of the students in these classes are female.) These classes are not designed to teach you how to fight, although, of course, lots of the techniques are derived from martial arts techniques.
post #33 of 88
As reluctant as I am to jump into the ring with this sort of debate, I personally believe there's a huge school of difference between "a fight" and MMA-style battles. In a fight there isn't typically a lot of technical considerations involved. As much as Mizanation would inform us that Kung-Fu sucks, I can speak from first-hand experience that it's not in any way an ineffective defense in a fight-assuming you were taught efficiently. MMA however, is a totally different beast.

Having already said that I endorse Kung-Fu as a self-defense discipline. If you take it into a martial art vs. martial art scenario, then no-it's not the best path one could take, but if it's taught properly, then you should be able to handle yourself out in the world in more "casual" circumstances.

edit: Disclaimer-my first hand experience consists of watching other people.
post #34 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Largo
As reluctant as I am to jump into the ring with this sort of debate ...

Ah, but you did, and now you too are an internet ninja
post #35 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy
Ah, but you did, and now you too are an internet ninja



Oh no! Now what do I do?!?
post #36 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Largo


Oh no! Now what do I do?!?

I would reccomend a broadband smoke bomb, then a super jump into a digital tree. Don't forget to fling a few cyber-shiruken as a parting gift!
post #37 of 88
I'LL KICK ALL YOUR ASSES!!!

(as long as we dont have to leave the internet to have the fight...gulp...its scary out there)
post #38 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by someoneNew
Brazilian jui jitsu was dominant maybe up until 10 years ago when Royce showed it to the world. Ever since it's all about the "well rounded fighter" - the ones who are well versed in stand-up, grappling, and wrestling now are the kings of the hill.

My friend who is a Brazillian jiu-jitsu nut and personally knows several of the Gracies tells me that most of them in fact "cross-train" in other disciplines like boxing.
post #39 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by arenn
My friend who is a Brazillian jiu-jitsu nut and personally knows several of the Gracies tells me that most of them in fact "cross-train" in other disciplines like boxing.
That's the problem that pretty much everyone overlooks when it comes to this argument... No good fighter, be a striking martial art or a wrestling one, is going to be completely one-sided in their training. I know for sure that if I wanted to be a ring-fighter I wouldn't restrict my training to only Muay Thai. You need to be an excellent fighter all around to do any good. That said, Wing Chun, which is the entire basis for Bruce Lee's martial arts, is a form of Kung Fu and involves takedowns and general combat counters. I wouldn't say that it differs greatly from Judo in it's effectiveness. Also that said, I find myself much more interested in the striking martial arts, because I think it's more athletic and fun.
post #40 of 88
Quote:
to the person who is waiting on taekwondo to do well in pride. well, sorry to burst your bubble but taekwondo has a horrible record in MMA. even in K-1, where the rules should favor TKD more, TKD has suffered bubble-bursting defeats.

Have you seen Serkan Yilmaz fight? The man is an animal, and he has done incredibly well in K-1.
post #41 of 88
post #42 of 88
Classic, Bas is a total comedian. He's a world champ though so he definitely knows what he's talking about.
post #43 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian SD
Have you seen Serkan Yilmaz fight? The man is an animal, and he has done incredibly well in K-1.

no, he has not done incredibly well in k-1 max (some of it due to poor judging). he's a great athlete, has great hands and has definitely cross-trained in other styles (i've seen footage of him in a san shou tourney). if he can pick up bjj and wrestling like he picked up boxing, he will do pretty well in mma. to say that he is an example of the effectiveness of TKD is missing the point. he is a good fighter because he was smart enough to learn stuff that he never learned in TKD. punching for example.

even kyokushin does pretty poorly in k-1. however, after a kyokushin fighter trains a lot with k-1/muay thai rules, they do a lot better. case in point, andy hug, francisco filho, glaube feitosa. all of them had trouble adjusting, but ended up doing pretty well eventually.

i'm not blindly knocking tkd, i'm an ITF black belt with successful tournament experience. i stopped doing TKD 10 years ago to learn more important skills. am i glad i spent all that time training TKD? sure. but do i wish i spent that time training muay thai, bjj or wrestling instead? of course!
post #44 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by someoneNew
Classic, Bas is a total comedian. He's a world champ though so he definitely knows what he's talking about.

Who's Bas? At what is he a world champ? Never heard of him...
post #45 of 88
^^^ bas rutten is a legendary pioneer in mixed martial arts. he competed in japan in the pancrase organization where he became champion. he was one of the first dominant fighters in mixed martial arts whose main mode of fighting was striking. he later became a very well-rounded fighter and a coach of champions. in pancrase, he defeated many outstanding fighters including frank shamrock.

later, he fought in the UFC and became a heavyweight champion.

fighters that he has coached: duane ludwig, genki sudo, ricco rodriguez, mark kerr, and many others--many have become champions in various organizations.

now, he is a very popular commentator for the US broadcast of Pride FC.

he recently made a return to the ring and won by KO.
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