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Grenadine Ties: Kent Wang $75 or Sam Hober $90 ? - Page 2

post #16 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reevolving View Post
David, thanks, but I am failing to see the advantage of a bespoke tie, beyond custom width.
If I find a mass market tie in my width, there is no advantage for a bespoke tie. (for me)
I have never had issues with poorly fitting ties so I don't have other specific requests.
(which is why I don't even need custom width.. Just "normal")

You tried to explain additional benefits of a bespoke tie.
However, they make no sense to me.

"Construction"?
Your ties may be well constructed, but that is different than listing this as an advantage of a bespoke tie.
Custom sizing is not causal to higher construction quality. One could easily bespoke a poorly made tie.
Conversely, Wang's ties are not necessesarily constructed in an inferior manner, just b/c they are not bespoke.

"knot"?
If I just want a "normal knot", I see no advantage.

"shape"?
If I just want a "normal tie", I see no advantage.

"listen to me"
If I have nothing to say, except wondering what needs to be bespoke in a tie, I see no advantage.

Right now, if the Wang tie comes in the color & width I want, I see no reason to "go bespoke".
Ties do not have the more complex fit of pants, shoes, shirts, jackets, etc.

Oh my god revolving how many times do you have to post stupid fucking shit like this? All these sunglasses look to the same to me, all these belts look the same to me, all these suits look the same to me. How many more items can you go through? If you can't fucking tell the difference, then buy the cheaper one and be happy.

You want a normal knot, normal tie, you don't know what a well constructed tie looks or feels like, go to fucking target and go load up on ties.

Jesus Christ.
post #17 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reevolving View Post
"knot"? If I just want a "normal knot", I don't even understand this option.

"shape"? If I just want a "normal tie", I don't even understand this option.

"Length" If I just want a "normal tie", I see no advantage.

"listen to me" It seems I have nothing to say, except wondering what exactly needs to be bespoke in a tie.

Maybe I'm missing something, but ties do not have the more personal 1-off variation of body type with relation to perfect fit of pants, shoes, shirts, jackets, etc.
Right now, if the Wang tie comes in the color & width I want, I see no difference...

You are missing something.

What's a normal knot? Long or short, vertically? Skinny or fat? How much tie space do your shirts have? Do you want your knot to fill it up? What knot do you tie most often? If you tie a four-in-hand, do you want it more symmetrical or severely asymmetrical? If you tie a Windsor, do you want it wider than it is tall, or the reverse? Do you want a dimple or not? A sharply creased dimple, or a smoothly rolling one? A deep dimple or a shallow one? Want a skinny tie with a bigger knot? Or a wider tie with a smaller knot?

Your desire for a "normal knot" doesn't make sense. I've got 50 RTW ties, and among them they probably tie up about 20 discernably different ways, with the same four-in-hand knot. If I had the money, I'd get all my ties made bespoke just for the sake of consistency.
post #18 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orgetorix View Post
You are missing something.

What's a normal knot? Long or short, vertically? Skinny or fat? How much tie space do your shirts have? Do you want your knot to fill it up? What knot do you tie most often? If you tie a four-in-hand, do you want it more symmetrical or severely asymmetrical? If you tie a Windsor, do you want it wider than it is tall, or the reverse? Do you want a dimple or not? A sharply creased dimple, or a smoothly rolling one? A deep dimple or a shallow one? Want a skinny tie with a bigger knot? Or a wider tie with a smaller knot?

Your desire for a "normal knot" doesn't make sense. I've got 50 RTW ties, and among them they probably tie up about 20 discernably different ways, with the same four-in-hand knot. If I had the money, I'd get all my ties made bespoke just for the sake of consistency.

Please don't feed the troll
post #19 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajesh06 View Post
Please don't feed the troll

Hey, there's like a 3% chance he actually wants to be enlightened. Maybe.
post #20 of 80
If David has the fabric that you like, nothing surpasses a Hober.

Kent's ties are also very nice.

Both are bargains.


- B
post #21 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orgetorix View Post
You are missing something.

What's a normal knot? Long or short, vertically? Skinny or fat? How much tie space do your shirts have? Do you want your knot to fill it up? What knot do you tie most often? If you tie a four-in-hand, do you want it more symmetrical or severely asymmetrical? If you tie a Windsor, do you want it wider than it is tall, or the reverse? Do you want a dimple or not? A sharply creased dimple, or a smoothly rolling one? A deep dimple or a shallow one? Want a skinny tie with a bigger knot? Or a wider tie with a smaller knot?

Your desire for a "normal knot" doesn't make sense. I've got 50 RTW ties, and among them they probably tie up about 20 discernably different ways, with the same four-in-hand knot. If I had the money, I'd get all my ties made bespoke just for the sake of consistency.

Orgetorix,


You make good points and interestingly sometimes the choice of silk will effect knots in addition to how the tie is made.

Also a random thought about dimples, I was in Paris visiting family in July and I noticed many well dressed French gentlemen were not wearing dimples on their ties and they looked great.

Which goes back to individual choices.
post #22 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
If David has the fabric that you like, nothing surpasses a Hober. Kent's ties are also very nice. Both are bargains. - B
David's (Sam Hober's) grenadines are a more open weave than what generally passes for a grenadine these days. I ordered his swatches and am looking forward to getting a few ties now. I suggest anyone interested in observing the difference do the same. The only comparable ones I've seen are Battistonis at twice the price. The things I've seen and gotten from Kent have been quality and great value. I have no experience with his grenadines, but they appear to be the closer weave that is more readily available today. Nothing wrong with these. I have a Ben Silver of that ilk I'm quite fond of which retailed for quite a bit more than Kent's wares. Reevolving:
post #23 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hober View Post
B,

Thank you for your kind words.

I would love it if you would do bespoke Charvet-shaped sized bows, given that the shape cannot be had otherwise and sized bows exist only in island-above-floodwater places like Budd.

I'd order a bunch...my old bows from school and college are finally starting to disintegrate.


- B
post #24 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by KObalto View Post
David's (Sam Hober's) grenadines are a more open weave than what generally passes for a grenadine these days.

You mean, because they are real grenadines.

- B
post #25 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
I would love it if you would do bespoke Charvet-shaped sized bows, given that the shape cannot be had otherwise and sized bows exist only in island-above-floodwater places like Budd.

I'd order a bunch...my old bows from school and college are finally starting to disintegrate.


- B

Probably a very small market for these, but it would be great to have David as a source.
post #26 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
You mean, because they are real grenadines. - B
You mean, because I am more diplomatic than you. No small achievement.
post #27 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by KObalto View Post
I have no experience with his grenadines, but they appear to be the closer weave that is more readily available today. Nothing wrong with these. I have a Ben Silver of that ilk I'm quite fond of which retailed for quite a bit more than Kent's wares.
We discussed this a while back in another thread. I used to use the closer weave but have now switched to the more open weave. I haven't seen one of David's grenadines in person but judging from the photos it is the same, or very similar. I personally prefer the looser weave, but in that thread David said he likes them both. In an even older thread, I think Manton asked David if his grenadine was the same weave as Marinella or someone but he said he stared at the photos for a long time and got dizzy. Haha, that was a good thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hober View Post
B, And again for the record I think Kent is nothing short of a creative genius whom I admire
You're too kind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
I would love it if you would do bespoke Charvet-shaped sized bows, given that the shape cannot be had otherwise and sized bows exist only in island-above-floodwater places like Budd.
Maybe the Cordial Churchman could make the bespoke bowtie for you. I'm not familiar with the Charvet shape. I'd be curious to see one.
post #28 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macallan9 View Post
Oh my god revolving how many times do you have to post stupid fucking shit like this? All these sunglasses look to the same to me, all these belts look the same to me, all these suits look the same to me. How many more items can you go through? If you can't fucking tell the difference, then buy the cheaper one and be happy. You want a normal knot, normal tie, you don't know what a well constructed tie looks or feels like, go to fucking target and go load up on ties. Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is right. There are some true low-IQ imbeciles on this forum. Please re-read my question, b/c it is clear you don't understand it. Do you understand the difference between custom ordered and good construction? One does NOT predicate the other. Correlation does not mean causation. I am asking what the difference b/w a RTW grenadine tie and a bespoke tie is. Beyond width/length, and now "knot type", doesn't seem like anywhere here knows.... And since I have no clue about knot type, bespoke is a farce, b/c I wouldn't know what to ask for. Truly amazing this is lost on some of the readers here. Amazing.
post #29 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent Wang View Post
I'm not familiar with the Charvet shape. I'd be curious to see one.
Will had a good post on his blog recently on square bows. A sized version in Atkinsons would be bananas. - B
post #30 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orgetorix View Post
You are missing something. What's a normal knot? Long or short, vertically? Skinny or fat? How much tie space do your shirts have? Do you want your knot to fill it up? What knot do you tie most often? If you tie a four-in-hand, do you want it more symmetrical or severely asymmetrical? If you tie a Windsor, do you want it wider than it is tall, or the reverse? Do you want a dimple or not? A sharply creased dimple, or a smoothly rolling one? A deep dimple or a shallow one? Want a skinny tie with a bigger knot? Or a wider tie with a smaller knot? Your desire for a "normal knot" doesn't make sense. I've got 50 RTW ties, and among them they probably tie up about 20 discernably different ways, with the same four-in-hand knot. If I had the money, I'd get all my ties made bespoke just for the sake of consistency.
Actually, it makes a lot of sense. I don't make the knot distinctions above. I tie a 4 in hand, and that's the knot that comes out. I have no need for anything "custom" in this regard.
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