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Grenadine Ties: Kent Wang $75 or Sam Hober $90 ? - Page 2

post #16 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reevolving View Post
David, thanks, but I am failing to see the advantage of a bespoke tie, beyond custom width.
If I find a mass market tie in my width, there is no advantage for a bespoke tie. (for me)
I have never had issues with poorly fitting ties so I don't have other specific requests.
(which is why I don't even need custom width.. Just "normal")

You tried to explain additional benefits of a bespoke tie.
However, they make no sense to me.

"Construction"?
Your ties may be well constructed, but that is different than listing this as an advantage of a bespoke tie.
Custom sizing is not causal to higher construction quality. One could easily bespoke a poorly made tie.
Conversely, Wang's ties are not necessesarily constructed in an inferior manner, just b/c they are not bespoke.

"knot"?
If I just want a "normal knot", I see no advantage.

"shape"?
If I just want a "normal tie", I see no advantage.

"listen to me"
If I have nothing to say, except wondering what needs to be bespoke in a tie, I see no advantage.

Right now, if the Wang tie comes in the color & width I want, I see no reason to "go bespoke".
Ties do not have the more complex fit of pants, shoes, shirts, jackets, etc.

Oh my god revolving how many times do you have to post stupid fucking shit like this? All these sunglasses look to the same to me, all these belts look the same to me, all these suits look the same to me. How many more items can you go through? If you can't fucking tell the difference, then buy the cheaper one and be happy.

You want a normal knot, normal tie, you don't know what a well constructed tie looks or feels like, go to fucking target and go load up on ties.

Jesus Christ.
post #17 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reevolving View Post
"knot"? If I just want a "normal knot", I don't even understand this option.

"shape"? If I just want a "normal tie", I don't even understand this option.

"Length" If I just want a "normal tie", I see no advantage.

"listen to me" It seems I have nothing to say, except wondering what exactly needs to be bespoke in a tie.

Maybe I'm missing something, but ties do not have the more personal 1-off variation of body type with relation to perfect fit of pants, shoes, shirts, jackets, etc.
Right now, if the Wang tie comes in the color & width I want, I see no difference...

You are missing something.

What's a normal knot? Long or short, vertically? Skinny or fat? How much tie space do your shirts have? Do you want your knot to fill it up? What knot do you tie most often? If you tie a four-in-hand, do you want it more symmetrical or severely asymmetrical? If you tie a Windsor, do you want it wider than it is tall, or the reverse? Do you want a dimple or not? A sharply creased dimple, or a smoothly rolling one? A deep dimple or a shallow one? Want a skinny tie with a bigger knot? Or a wider tie with a smaller knot?

Your desire for a "normal knot" doesn't make sense. I've got 50 RTW ties, and among them they probably tie up about 20 discernably different ways, with the same four-in-hand knot. If I had the money, I'd get all my ties made bespoke just for the sake of consistency.
post #18 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orgetorix View Post
You are missing something.

What's a normal knot? Long or short, vertically? Skinny or fat? How much tie space do your shirts have? Do you want your knot to fill it up? What knot do you tie most often? If you tie a four-in-hand, do you want it more symmetrical or severely asymmetrical? If you tie a Windsor, do you want it wider than it is tall, or the reverse? Do you want a dimple or not? A sharply creased dimple, or a smoothly rolling one? A deep dimple or a shallow one? Want a skinny tie with a bigger knot? Or a wider tie with a smaller knot?

Your desire for a "normal knot" doesn't make sense. I've got 50 RTW ties, and among them they probably tie up about 20 discernably different ways, with the same four-in-hand knot. If I had the money, I'd get all my ties made bespoke just for the sake of consistency.

Please don't feed the troll
post #19 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajesh06 View Post
Please don't feed the troll

Hey, there's like a 3% chance he actually wants to be enlightened. Maybe.
post #20 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reevolving View Post
David, thanks, but I am still failing to see the advantage of a bespoke tie, beyond custom width.
If I find a mass market tie in my width, I see no advantage for a bespoke tie. (for me)
Perhaps I don't understand what a poorly fitting tie is.... so I don't have specific requests.

You tried to explain additional benefits of a bespoke tie.
However, they make no sense to me.

"Construction"?
I disagree with your logic here.
Your ties may be well constructed, but this is not an advantage of having a bespoke tie.
Custom sizing does not guarantee higher construction quality. One could easily bespoke a poorly made tie.
Conversely, Wang's ties are not necessesarily constructed in an inferior manner, just b/c they are not bespoke.
You can make one size only, or size to request, and have either terrible or great construction quality.

"knot"? If I just want a "normal knot", I don't even understand this option.

"shape"? If I just want a "normal tie", I don't even understand this option.

"Length" If I just want a "normal tie", I see no advantage.

"listen to me" It seems I have nothing to say, except wondering what exactly needs to be bespoke in a tie.

Maybe I'm missing something, but ties do not have the more personal 1-off variation of body type with relation to perfect fit of pants, shoes, shirts, jackets, etc.
Right now, if the Wang tie comes in the color & width I want, I see no difference...

Reevolving,


Again, I am sorry if I have not been clear and I invite you to contact us directly for a longer explanation via email or telephone.

1) I am not commenting on Kent Wang's ties as I have never seen one - I am commenting on ready made ties in general. Personally I like Kent very much and think he is a brilliant marketing man who is very creative, with an emphasis on being very creative.

2) If you find a ready made tie available that you like (for you personally) at a reasonable price as Teddie Riley says (and I agree) please purchase it.

3) Width is very much a personal choice, length is a little different and can be a very big plus for a custom made tie.

4) "Your ties may be well constructed, but this is not an advantage of having a bespoke tie."
A custom made tie will typically have a great deal more time and care go in to its construction which results in a better made tie. This is a fact.

In theory could a custom made tie be poorly made by say a new tie maker or one who does not care about quality and goes very quickly? Yes, but it is very, very unlikely to happen as people who do not care about quality generally do not make bespoke ties.

Of course not everyone will appreciate a luxury tie or even if they do appreciate the finer points they may not be concerned.

5) Shape can be a classic American type - think Brooks Brothers or perhaps a bottle shape think some Italian ties or something else. If you have no preference then you will always be fine - which is good.

6) Finally listening is the most important point - we are not just a tie seller - we are a service business. We listen not only to the technical points of your tie but who you are and establish relationships with our customers over time.

We are a small business with a small profit margin but we love what we do and enjoy talking to our clients.

So in summary, if your needs are simple and you do not need the best then you can often find good sales in England on many ties with great silks.

The one area where there is not a big difference between bespoke and ready made is in the silk quality. Typically all the good tie makers will have wonderful silk of very high quality.

I look forward to hearing from you and promise to answer any and all your questions at great length if you wish and it will be my pleasure to do so.
post #21 of 82
If David has the fabric that you like, nothing surpasses a Hober.

Kent's ties are also very nice.

Both are bargains.


- B
post #22 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orgetorix View Post
You are missing something.

What's a normal knot? Long or short, vertically? Skinny or fat? How much tie space do your shirts have? Do you want your knot to fill it up? What knot do you tie most often? If you tie a four-in-hand, do you want it more symmetrical or severely asymmetrical? If you tie a Windsor, do you want it wider than it is tall, or the reverse? Do you want a dimple or not? A sharply creased dimple, or a smoothly rolling one? A deep dimple or a shallow one? Want a skinny tie with a bigger knot? Or a wider tie with a smaller knot?

Your desire for a "normal knot" doesn't make sense. I've got 50 RTW ties, and among them they probably tie up about 20 discernably different ways, with the same four-in-hand knot. If I had the money, I'd get all my ties made bespoke just for the sake of consistency.

Orgetorix,


You make good points and interestingly sometimes the choice of silk will effect knots in addition to how the tie is made.

Also a random thought about dimples, I was in Paris visiting family in July and I noticed many well dressed French gentlemen were not wearing dimples on their ties and they looked great.

Which goes back to individual choices.
post #23 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
If David has the fabric that you like, nothing surpasses a Hober.

Kent's ties are also very nice.

Both are bargains.


- B

B,

Thank you for your kind words.

And again for the record I think Kent is nothing short of a creative genius whom I admire.

As for our fabric selection have no fear we are step by step building a large permanent collection of classics currently with an emphasis on English silks. Later lots more Italian and Thai silks. Around 100 new silks are currently in progress.

I have a long term dream of being able to quickly and easily do small limited editions of client requested designs. This would take care of non-classic designs.

We can do special requests now but not so quickly or easily due to the time needed to create designs.
post #24 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
If David has the fabric that you like, nothing surpasses a Hober. Kent's ties are also very nice. Both are bargains. - B
David's (Sam Hober's) grenadines are a more open weave than what generally passes for a grenadine these days. I ordered his swatches and am looking forward to getting a few ties now. I suggest anyone interested in observing the difference do the same. The only comparable ones I've seen are Battistonis at twice the price. The things I've seen and gotten from Kent have been quality and great value. I have no experience with his grenadines, but they appear to be the closer weave that is more readily available today. Nothing wrong with these. I have a Ben Silver of that ilk I'm quite fond of which retailed for quite a bit more than Kent's wares. Reevolving:
post #25 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hober View Post
B,

Thank you for your kind words.

I would love it if you would do bespoke Charvet-shaped sized bows, given that the shape cannot be had otherwise and sized bows exist only in island-above-floodwater places like Budd.

I'd order a bunch...my old bows from school and college are finally starting to disintegrate.


- B
post #26 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by KObalto View Post
David's (Sam Hober's) grenadines are a more open weave than what generally passes for a grenadine these days.

You mean, because they are real grenadines.

- B
post #27 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
I would love it if you would do bespoke Charvet-shaped sized bows, given that the shape cannot be had otherwise and sized bows exist only in island-above-floodwater places like Budd.

I'd order a bunch...my old bows from school and college are finally starting to disintegrate.


- B

Probably a very small market for these, but it would be great to have David as a source.
post #28 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
You mean, because they are real grenadines. - B
You mean, because I am more diplomatic than you. No small achievement.
post #29 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by KObalto View Post
I have no experience with his grenadines, but they appear to be the closer weave that is more readily available today. Nothing wrong with these. I have a Ben Silver of that ilk I'm quite fond of which retailed for quite a bit more than Kent's wares.
We discussed this a while back in another thread. I used to use the closer weave but have now switched to the more open weave. I haven't seen one of David's grenadines in person but judging from the photos it is the same, or very similar. I personally prefer the looser weave, but in that thread David said he likes them both. In an even older thread, I think Manton asked David if his grenadine was the same weave as Marinella or someone but he said he stared at the photos for a long time and got dizzy. Haha, that was a good thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hober View Post
B, And again for the record I think Kent is nothing short of a creative genius whom I admire
You're too kind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
I would love it if you would do bespoke Charvet-shaped sized bows, given that the shape cannot be had otherwise and sized bows exist only in island-above-floodwater places like Budd.
Maybe the Cordial Churchman could make the bespoke bowtie for you. I'm not familiar with the Charvet shape. I'd be curious to see one.
post #30 of 82
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macallan9 View Post
Oh my god revolving how many times do you have to post stupid fucking shit like this? All these sunglasses look to the same to me, all these belts look the same to me, all these suits look the same to me. How many more items can you go through? If you can't fucking tell the difference, then buy the cheaper one and be happy. You want a normal knot, normal tie, you don't know what a well constructed tie looks or feels like, go to fucking target and go load up on ties. Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is right. There are some true low-IQ imbeciles on this forum. Please re-read my question, b/c it is clear you don't understand it. Do you understand the difference between custom ordered and good construction? One does NOT predicate the other. Correlation does not mean causation. I am asking what the difference b/w a RTW grenadine tie and a bespoke tie is. Beyond width/length, and now "knot type", doesn't seem like anywhere here knows.... And since I have no clue about knot type, bespoke is a farce, b/c I wouldn't know what to ask for. Truly amazing this is lost on some of the readers here. Amazing.
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