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Made in Italy by Chinese workers - Page 7

post #91 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by justsayno View Post
Interesting POV ...

But not something that I would subscribe.

Africa trades with China because China is pumping tons of high fixed cost investments in Africa to gain access to natural resources such as oil and minerals. Because of the acceptance of Chinese businesses in Africa, Chinese apparel manufacturers have set up manufacturing plants in Africa. I went to Gap recently and found some merchandise that were made in Lesotho.

http://www.irinnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportId=76405

From the Report:
The Chinese presence in Lesotho is not a new phenomenon. For more than a decade, immigrants from mainland China, Taiwan and Hong Kong have fuelled Lesotho's economy, as apparel manufacturers from Asia were drawn by tax incentives and rent discounts to attract foreign direct investment.

Today these textile factories are the country's biggest employers, providing more than 40,000 jobs, according to the country's Ministry of Trade and Industry.



Are you surprised?

They're heavily investing in Algeria in building infrastructures...

They bring their own workers and tend to avoid employing locals...

Africa used to be chasse gardee of the European powers such as Great Britain ,Italy, France and Portugal ,now Chinese and American are coming to grab the natural resources ...

Gas ,minerals and so on...
post #92 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchosko View Post
Amid much racist claptrap, China bashing, and paranoia about a global future under Chinese domination in the NYT comments to the article that this thread is about, I found this smart comment by someone who appears to be in the know. Thought it would be of interest here:

"New York
September 13th, 2010
4:41 pm

I am in the textile business and currently in China till next week.

First of all we have to remember that through the ages China had one of the most advanced civilized cultures on the planet.
Chinese inventions such as paper, fireworks, and pasta have had incredible impact on mankind.
Silk was a Chinese discovery, and part of the trade that was known as the silk road.
It is actually theorized that the Chinese discovered America prior to Columbus and the Chinese had a massive 3000 ship trade fleet that circumnavigated the globe when the rest of the world was still developing.

There are many negative comments regarding the quality of Chinese made goods, and that the content origin should state who made the item.
If you insist on Made in Italy by Chinese workers, where does it end. Do you have to say Made in USA by 3rd generation Irish who left during the potato famine.
The comments basically hint of racial bias. It is called a country of origin label, not a racial profile of the person making the item. If we go to that extreme we might as well provide a DNA sample with the label as well.

In regards to quality it should be noted that there are high quality factories and lower quality factories. This is determined by the skill set of the workers, the quality control, raw materials and production methods.
To say that the Italian shoes produced by Chinese labor is of a poorer quality is also racially biased and uninformed. It depends on the type of factory and the above factors not who is making them.
There are skilled and unskilled workers of every race.

It never ceases to amaze me how many factories I see in China that are producing high end product for some of the top labels and brands around the world.
Brands such as Armani, Zegna, Strenesse, Cerruti, Polo Purple Label etc are all producing in China with skilled Chinese labor.
On top of that many top Italian companies are sending their technicians to China to oversee production and teach their Chinese counterparts the technical aspects for the particular finishing requirements etc.
Piacenza has sent technicians to China to work with fabric mills, Corneliani has had a joint venture with a Chinese producer, and Zegna has a tailored garment factory in Wuxi which produces primarily for the EU.
The fact of the matter is that China has the infrastructure and skilled labour to produce some of the top product in the world. Let's face it, some of these skills are no longer present anywhere else or only at the top prices.

Sure you can spend $6000 for a Brioni or Kiton suit that is made in Italy and with "Italian" labor.
However I was in a factory in China that hired a former pattern maker and technician for Gianluca Isaia.
This brand is based in Naples and suits retail around $3000.
He was working for a Chinese company helping them develop a hand made suit line in China.
After viewing a suit I had another factory make he made the comment that the suit was about 80% handmade. Something that you could not get in Italy, even Kiton and Brioni are only about 60% handmade. The fact of the matter is that it would not be cost effect even at $6000 a suit to add the additional handwork. Yet the Chinese are able to do this due to low price skilled labor.

The fact of the matter is that most consumers do not have a clue about what they are buying.
Value and quality is only perceived and most consumers do not know the difference. If you shop at Walmart you are getting a low priced item. The problem is that the consumer does not want to pay more, hence you have retailers such as Walmart, & H&M. Do not generalize all Chinese products in the same lot as the factories that produce for these retailers satisfy a need.

Do you think that the skill set for apparel manufacturing in Romania or Poland is better than factories in China? A good Chinese factory can compete with any factory anywhere for apparel."

Thank you for sharing, Jchosko. I'm glad that intelligence and reason have not been totally taken over by the anger, hatred, and scapegoating that seems to be gripping society right now.
post #93 of 101
this report is very interesting, thank you for sharing this information.
do you have also report about the conditions of the workers in those factories, report about pollution, report about taxes paid...
Please note my question is not critic, but I'm REALLY interested in knowing more about the matter.
I think to have an opinion we need all the information.

another point : from my side I have the maximum respect for everbody. Chinese cultur is really one of the oldest and richest, but please note there are thousands and thousands of jobs in Europe and US involved in this matter.
we can't gamble with them. We have just to tell to our people : ok, it was just a joke, go home, non more jobs here for you...in a couple of years you all lost your 30/40 years old skill ?
I don't think we are better, or Chinese are better, or Korean, or Vietnam..NO PREJUDICES, in ALL places you can find professional people.
please, believe me, it is not easy. On my side I accepted the challenge and I will do everything LEGAL to keep my business and to look my people in the eyes and tell them : we did all possible before to give up.
post #94 of 101
China imposes tariff on US poultry

More signs of protectionism. Turn to page B1 of today's New York Times, "China Imposes A Steep Tariff On US Poultry." The Times is reporting that China announced it would impose steep tariffs on poultry imports from the US, up to 105.4 percent of the value of the poultry products. The Chinese are accusing the US poultry industry of dumping chicken exports on China. As a reminder, dumping is defined as exporting a good to a country for less than it cost to produce it. Some are considering the move as retaliation after the US imposed tariffs on Chinese tires a year ago. Poultry is one of the few categories in which the US runs a trade surplus with China, making it an ideal target for Chinese trade actions.
post #95 of 101
I would not underestimate or write off the Chinese. I have been traveling to China for business for the last 20 years. The improvements in infrastructure has been tremendous. Some of the European cars which are assembled in China now have less quality issues as compared to the ones from the home country!!
post #96 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal_1 View Post
China imposes tariff on US poultry

More signs of protectionism. Turn to page B1 of today's New York Times, "China Imposes A Steep Tariff On US Poultry." The Times is reporting that China announced it would impose steep tariffs on poultry imports from the US, up to 105.4 percent of the value of the poultry products. The Chinese are accusing the US poultry industry of dumping chicken exports on China. As a reminder, dumping is defined as exporting a good to a country for less than it cost to produce it. Some are considering the move as retaliation after the US imposed tariffs on Chinese tires a year ago. Poultry is one of the few categories in which the US runs a trade surplus with China, making it an ideal target for Chinese trade actions.

The western countries are too buzy arguing between themselves to face the challenges of the emerging nations.

Once again , the lack of coordinated actions and nationalistic tendencies have created a political vacuum leaving the neo-liberal policies shaping a cut-throat new economical order......
post #97 of 101
Just a note going back to the original post : yesterday the Court in Carpi (Modena) closed a procedure against illegal Chinese workers in Prato area. The judgment was not only against the Chinese owners of the illegal Companies, but also against the Italian Companies using them to produce their goods. Motivation was because they were conscious of using illegal labor, without any kind of safety and health control and taxes. Just a note about fight against illegality, without prejudicies of race, religion or nationality. Illegality has no colour or race.
The road to walk is long, but this is somehow an historical judgment. Illegal is not only who produce, but also who has profit using illegality. And, believe me, 95% of Italian LEGAL Companies are thinking the same and they are happy about what's happened yesterday.
post #98 of 101
One of the largest tax evasions in Italian history

http://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/notizie/2012-07-11/moda-cinese-sedotta-nero-141618.shtml?uuid=AbiXVF6F

All taking advantage of the tax break Monti brought in last Dec. Just showing how much that sort talks out of both sides of his mouth.
post #99 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by max b View Post

Just a note going back to the original post : yesterday the Court in Carpi (Modena) closed a procedure against illegal Chinese workers in Prato area. The judgment was not only against the Chinese owners of the illegal Companies, but also against the Italian Companies using them to produce their goods. Motivation was because they were conscious of using illegal labor, without any kind of safety and health control and taxes. Just a note about fight against illegality, without prejudicies of race, religion or nationality. Illegality has no colour or race.
The road to walk is long, but this is somehow an historical judgment. Illegal is not only who produce, but also who has profit using illegality. And, believe me, 95% of Italian LEGAL Companies are thinking the same and they are happy about what's happened yesterday.

Many of these companies utilizing illegal labor in Italy, are controlled or fronts for organized crime. While much of that industry, especially in the Naples area, is controlled by the Neapolitan Camorra, the area of Prato and the more northern sections of Italy, have been the recipient of expansion by the Calabrian 'ndrangheta, currently the most powerful of the 4 major Italian crime syndicates (the Sicilian Mafia and Pugliese Sacra Corona Unita are the other two).
post #100 of 101
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post #101 of 101
Thread Starter 
Bravo
Quote:
Originally Posted by max b View Post

Just a note going back to the original post : yesterday the Court in Carpi (Modena) closed a procedure against illegal Chinese workers in Prato area. The judgment was not only against the Chinese owners of the illegal Companies, but also against the Italian Companies using them to produce their goods. Motivation was because they were conscious of using illegal labor, without any kind of safety and health control and taxes. Just a note about fight against illegality, without prejudicies of race, religion or nationality. Illegality has no colour or race.
The road to walk is long, but this is somehow an historical judgment. Illegal is not only who produce, but also who has profit using illegality. And, believe me, 95% of Italian LEGAL Companies are thinking the same and they are happy about what's happened yesterday.
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