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RANCOURT & Co. Shoes - Made in Maine - Page 230

post #3436 of 5219
Horween blog on shell #8 fades from a few years back.

That's the kind of fading I meant. The dye itself breaks down tremendously with exposure to the sun, faster than the leather darkens with exposure to sun. I certainly didn't expect the #8 CXL to act like shell at the creases, or have the same look as it pushes the dye/oils away from those creases. But I did expect #8 CXL to fade with exposure to sunlight, especially since as a summer shoe it would be exposed to a lot of sunlight. Instead, it's just a burgundy color that stays more or less a burgundy color.

Of course, now I have natural shell loafers, and #8 shell rangers, so I'll get that sun exposure this coming summer!
post #3437 of 5219
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdahab View Post


The #8 confusion is because it implies (at least to me) that it's using the same dye as #8 shell. The dye in #8 shell breaks down in sunlight. The dye in #8 cxl does not. It's akin to saying something is indigo dyed, when you really mean that it's dyed the same color as indigo (indigo has very specific properties, such as rubbing off very easily and fading) but using a dye that doesn't act like indigo. You'd be disappointed, thinking you were getting the same properties. In that way, I expected #8 CXL not to act like shell creasing wise, but to fade like shell in exposure to sunlight.

As for OSB, they (and Yuketen, and Red Wings handsewns) make their shoes with Highland Shoes, a Berkshire Hathaway subsidiary (through Justin Brands) as of this year, located in Maine.

 

It looks like Highland Shoe Co. only does handsewns, so I assume that Oakstreet's Goodyear-welted offerings (Trench Boots) are probably made at the factory where Justin makes their boots?

post #3438 of 5219
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdahab View Post

Horween blog on shell #8 fades from a few years back.

That's the kind of fading I meant. The dye itself breaks down tremendously with exposure to the sun, faster than the leather darkens with exposure to sun. I certainly didn't expect the #8 CXL to act like shell at the creases, or have the same look as it pushes the dye/oils away from those creases. But I did expect #8 CXL to fade with exposure to sunlight, especially since as a summer shoe it would be exposed to a lot of sunlight. Instead, it's just a burgundy color that stays more or less a burgundy color.

Of course, now I have natural shell loafers, and #8 shell rangers, so I'll get that sun exposure this coming summer!

 

I understand, I wasn't saying that anyone was expecting creases, etc., to behave the same way.

 

My misunderstanding was limited to behavior of the color fading, and the expectations related to that.   Just as I wouldn't expect a piece of wood or cloth that has been saturated with Color 8 dye to "look" the same as a pair of shell shoes when left out in the sun, I also wouldn't expect different leathers to behave the same way, regardless of their dye color.  I've seen that blog post from Horween, but it doesn't necessarily imply that the color changes are strictly due to the dye itself.  Rather, it is just about how leather changes over time and Color 8 shell is used as the example for the blog post.  I may be misinterpreting the results that were being sought though.

 

Anyway, hope you enjoy them regardless of their fading characteristics!

post #3439 of 5219
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdahab View Post

So I got to meet Mike and Kyle Rancourt yesterday at the Pop-Up Flea, as well as Katie. That was wonderful, as I'm of course a huge fan of them. I now own 4 pair of Rancourts, but unfortunately with the weather I wasn't wearing any of them. Along with chatting with them a while, I asked some questions about their construction, and got some answers as well, mostly with Mike.

So here's the summary, all paraphrased as best as I remember, *none* of these should be taken as quotes of what I asked or even close to their phrasings.

Q: How come you guys can get so much natural shell cordovan, while everyone else is treating it as though it's impossible to get?
A: We have a really great relationship Horween, it goes back a long time with shell cordovan, and (I think he said it this way) we order a lot of stuff ahead of time. Alden waits until they get the order for the shoes and then orders the cordovan to fill that order.

*I interpreted this as basically Horween knows they have a guaranteed sale to Rancourt, so Rancourt gets first crack. Alden isn't a guaranteed buyer, so they have to wait.

Q: Do you use fiberboard in your insoles? Why? Doesn't that diminish the longevity of the shoe?
A: Yes we do. *I don't remember his answer to why, sorry guys.* No it doesn't because unlike with goodyear welted shoes, we replace that insole when the soles get redone.

Q: What do you think of neocork soles? Aren't they cool? (I was wearing Alden Indy boots)
A: They are pretty much the sole we wish we could sell, we love them, and we've searched high and low, but it looks like Alden and Red Wing have a lockdown on the suppliers, we can't find anyone willing to sell to us.

Q: I was disappointed that my #8 CXL didn't actually act like #8 shell.
A: Yeah, we aren't thrilled by that either, but that's what Horween calls it, #8 CXL. They say it's because the base color is the same, but it definitely doesn't do the color fade that #8 shell does, it won't fade to yellow/red, sorry that it was a disappointment.

Q: You know your competitors are much more active on Style Forum, any interest in checking it out? For example, Oak Street hangs out there, and Allen Edmonds CEO has a sweetheart deal on custom shell shoes.
A (mostly Kyle and Katie): That AE deal sounds awesome, wow. We have looked into SF, and we get you guys buy a lot of our stuff, we just don't have the time. Our competitors that hang out there, like OSB, tend not to be actual manufacturers, so there is only so much shoe related stuff they can do. That's just the way it is, those guys design great shoes, but they don't make them.

Anyway, they also offered me some really great customer support discussions particular to me. They are all super friendly and social, and I apologized to/thanked them for having to deal with all of us crazy shoe lovers.

The deals they had at Pop-Up Flea were okay, but they were mostly the sales-tax difference of buying in person in NYC vs. buying online without tax, so I didn't buy anything.

Great info!  I love my shell Rancourts, great shoes.. You mention a sweetheart deal on AE shells.  Is this something you can PM me?

 

Thanks!

 

Steve

post #3440 of 5219
It's no secret, doesn't need to be PM'd. The CEO of Allen Edmonds made an offer over on the AE thread here on SF, earlier this year, that custom order fees would be waived on any Style Forum member's custom order. It works out to any upgrade, configuration, lining, and customized feature that they are able to do (things like leaving of medallions, adding exposed eyelets and speed hooks, etc) would be free and not subject to the usual $150+ custom charge. On top of this, when they have an AE wide sale (like the 15% off RDA sale) it stacks. So custom shell AE anything they make, with your choice of lining, soles, edging, etc. for about $500 (+ tax depending on where you live). Only shell colors are brown, #8, and black. I have a pair of unlined brown shell shortwings and unlined #8 shell long wings, all double JR soled, antique edged, in production as we speak.
post #3441 of 5219
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdahab View Post

It's no secret, doesn't need to be PM'd. The CEO of Allen Edmonds made an offer over on the AE thread here on SF, earlier this year, that custom order fees would be waived on any Style Forum member's custom order. It works out to any upgrade, configuration, lining, and customized feature that they are able to do (things like leaving of medallions, adding exposed eyelets and speed hooks, etc) would be free and not subject to the usual $150+ custom charge. On top of this, when they have an AE wide sale (like the 15% off RDA sale) it stacks. So custom shell AE anything they make, with your choice of lining, soles, edging, etc. for about $500 (+ tax depending on where you live). Only shell colors are brown, #8, and black. I have a pair of unlined brown shell shortwings and unlined #8 shell long wings, all double JR soled, antique edged, in production as we speak.

Thanks for the info!

 

See Ya,

Steve

post #3442 of 5219
Just got a pair of ranger mocs in from the Club Monaco sale. I followed the sizing advice I found here (the suggestion was to take the same size as one takes in the Alden Barrie last), but they seem pretty tight. I got a pair of penny loafers last year in my 'normal size' (10.5D) and they were huge, so big that I had to sell them. I figured then that sizing down to 10D would work.

How much can I expect the chromexel to stretch on the ranger mocs? I have some boots in the same leather but they didn't stretch too much as they weren't tight to begin with.
post #3443 of 5219
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnH123 View Post

Just got a pair of ranger mocs in from the Club Monaco sale. I followed the sizing advice I found here (the suggestion was to take the same size as one takes in the Alden Barrie last), but they seem pretty tight. I got a pair of penny loafers last year in my 'normal size' (10.5D) and they were huge, so big that I had to sell them. I figured then that sizing down to 10D would work.

How much can I expect the chromexel to stretch on the ranger mocs? I have some boots in the same leather but they didn't stretch too much as they weren't tight to begin with.

Unlined CXL stretches *a lot* at least in hand stitched shoes. The difference between these and most other shoes is that other shoes have a piece of celastic (plastic basically) that holds the toe form. Celastic doesn't stretch with your foot. Handsewn shoes use that stitching to hold the toe shape, so there's nothing but the CXL, and yeah, it will stretch, at least if you're a fan of these kinds of shoes when they exactly fit your foot like a glove. They aren't supposed to fit like boots, you don't need to have an inch in front of your toes.
post #3444 of 5219
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnH123 View Post

Just got a pair of ranger mocs in from the Club Monaco sale. I followed the sizing advice I found here (the suggestion was to take the same size as one takes in the Alden Barrie last), but they seem pretty tight. I got a pair of penny loafers last year in my 'normal size' (10.5D) and they were huge, so big that I had to sell them. I figured then that sizing down to 10D would work.

How much can I expect the chromexel to stretch on the ranger mocs? I have some boots in the same leather but they didn't stretch too much as they weren't tight to begin with.

My cxl penny loafers were fairly tight (so much so that I was worried they weren't going to work) and they stretched enough that I can wear some decently thick socks with them comfortably.

post #3445 of 5219
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckb View Post

My cxl penny loafers were fairly tight (so much so that I was worried they weren't going to work) and they stretched enough that I can wear some decently thick socks with them comfortably.

Same experience here. Mine have stretched considerably.
post #3446 of 5219
Quote:
Originally Posted by GooseG View Post

Same experience here. Mine have stretched considerably.
Same here.
post #3447 of 5219
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdahab View Post

Unlined CXL stretches *a lot* at least in hand stitched shoes. The difference between these and most other shoes is that other shoes have a piece of celastic (plastic basically) that holds the toe form. Celastic doesn't stretch with your foot. Handsewn shoes use that stitching to hold the toe shape, so there's nothing but the CXL, and yeah, it will stretch, at least if you're a fan of these kinds of shoes when they exactly fit your foot like a glove. They aren't supposed to fit like boots, you don't need to have an inch in front of your toes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckb View Post

My cxl penny loafers were fairly tight (so much so that I was worried they weren't going to work) and they stretched enough that I can wear some decently thick socks with them comfortably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GooseG View Post

Same experience here. Mine have stretched considerably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tifosi View Post

Same here.

Thanks for the responses gents, I've been wearing them around my home to break them in (it's slush city where I live for the next 4 months) so they should be good by spring.
post #3448 of 5219
John, you will be good to go within a month.

Although, I've really put a beating on my beefrolls since September. I just installed some taps because I'm blowing the heels out at a really high rate.
post #3449 of 5219
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnH123 View Post

Just got a pair of ranger mocs in from the Club Monaco sale. I followed the sizing advice I found here (the suggestion was to take the same size as one takes in the Alden Barrie last), but they seem pretty tight. I got a pair of penny loafers last year in my 'normal size' (10.5D) and they were huge, so big that I had to sell them. I figured then that sizing down to 10D would work.

How much can I expect the chromexel to stretch on the ranger mocs? I have some boots in the same leather but they didn't stretch too much as they weren't tight to begin with.

Penny Loafers ( at least the beefrolls) 800 Last

 

Ranger Mocs 114 Last

 

If i'm not mistaken.

post #3450 of 5219

Does anyone have "in the wild" pics wearing the suede Chukkas that Rancourt makes for Club Monaco? I think it's the Fuller chukka but I am not sure. The last looks very bulky and wide but it is hard to tell without seeing of pic on feet.

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