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Naldini

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
This line has been put up for auction on ebay with attractive pricing. Can anyone give a description of the line's quality? Thanks, Z
post #2 of 16
There are more than a few sellers on ebay that have made a thriving business out of this sort of scam. It's simple - you take a $250 suit like Naldini, you claim it retails for $1995 and then you "mark it down" to $325.00. Sorry if I sound bitter but these guys really hurt me. They steal my business in the short term and ruin it in the long term by turning customers off to ebay when they finally figure out they have been scammed. Naldini and a million other "Italian" brands are readily available in the LA garment district, or Marshalls, or Ross etc. The true retail value for most of these suits is $150-$300. Sometimes that "Made in Italy" tag is referring to the fact that the TAG was sewn on in Italy while the rest of the suit was made in China or somewhere comparable. Not that "Made in Italy" means anything anyways.... Other misrepresented brands you will see on ebay - Enrico Coveri, Canaletti, Sartoria Menchetti, and the list goes on.
post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info. Let it be know I have forever crossed those labels off my list of potential purchases (along with their sellers). Perhaps the more experienced among our group can make available a list of brands that are commonly misrepresented as "high-end". Mr. Harris has kindly provided examples of such labels. I for one would greatly benefit as I am rather new to this subject (though, in no small part due to this site, that is rapidly changing.). For example, just a year ago I would have thought DKNY shirtings were "high-end". When I saw a Donna Karan "Signature" (gold label) marked down I thought I was gettting her "high-end" product. However, due to knowledge shared on the this site I discovered a great deal on a Donna Karan New York "Black Label" shirt at Off Saks Outlet today. The shirt itself was buried in a big mark-down pile, and I never would have know it was a great deal had it not been for my "re-education" in clothes. Such an example seems embarrising to me now. Z
post #4 of 16
Hi A.Harris, So those brands are trying to rip you off by saying they are "Italian?" What about this leather brand called Ruffo? They say they are made in Italy, and say they make leather goods for Versace. I am not sure, and I saw a nice piece by them I liked. Also this brand called Jen Paul Gaulter(sp)? I was reading last time in a Vogue for men that there is also a company called Robert Caravalli; is this a good company? And Alfred Dunhill? I know they make cigarettes but what about their clothing, belts, wallets? Forgive me but I am only familiar with brands like Gucci, Versace, and your Louis Vuitton. Thanks.
post #5 of 16
All the brands you listed are legit. Ruffo is out of Italy, and known for their leather. They had their own label under their name, but I think it recently has been discontinued. Dunhill makes good accessories (like cigarette cases, cuff links), and Jean-Paul Gaultier has his own label though it is very eccentric. Cavalli does a lot of over the top fashion similar to Versace. One thing is that if you do find something you think may be "high-end" it is good to research it a little for there are a lot of companies that exist with a name similar to that of established labels just to gain some off the confusion caused with an uninformed consumer. Meaning their may very well be a Robert Caravalli label out there also. Though on the flipside there are also quality brands that have names almost too close to each other like Pucci and Gucci, also Missoni and Messori (which I got confused on one time).
post #6 of 16
A Harris, What is wrong with Sartoria Menchetti? Are they made in China and then have "Made in Italy" tags sewn in by Italians in Italy? I have a pair or two and they seem legit and of high quality. All tags are in Italian and there are tags stating the material comes from an Italian mill. Could you share what you know about Sartoria Menchetti? Thanks,
post #7 of 16
Ruffo is one of the best in the world for leather - great stuff. And I like Dunhill, the quality isn't bad and the styling is definitely above average. I've never heard of Caravalli but that doesn't mean they aren't good. Menchetti pants aren't that bad (probably worth $50-$75 at retail) but I would definitely stay away from their jackets. I used Naldini, Coveri, Canaletti and Menchetti as specific examples because I have seen their products in person, primarily at Ross and Marshalls.   The Marshalls in Colma CA has started carrying suits that are visual knock-offs of a high end suit. They have fake pick-stitching on the lapels, ivory and dark yellow striped sleeve linings, basting thread on the shoulders, sleeves and buttoholes, "Super 120's" fabric etc. Yet they are mass produced suits and not particularly good ones at that. Menchetti was one of the labels I saw there that fit that bill. If a customer doesn't really know anything about clothing construction it would be fairly easy to assume from the surface resemblance that a Menchetti is as well made as a Brioni. Heck, I even looked twice the first time I saw them. From 5 feet away it looked as if they had just gotten in a whole rack of Brioni's. Gone are the times when I could pick out a Faconnable or a Corneliani or an Isaia from 10 feet away at Nordstrom Rack because they were the only suits with unfinished sleeves and white stitching down the shoulder seam. Now all sorts of wannabe suits sport the same details. It is at the same time a fascinating and a disturbing trend. It shows that men are becoming a bit more aware of "sartorial" clothing. However these suits are in reality counterfeits. Companies are spending time and money to add detailing that has no function other than to make the suit look like something it's not. Men in general are in desperate need of education about apparel quality because they are being taken for a ride..
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Perhaps the more experienced among our group can make available a list of brands that are commonly misrepresented as "high-end"
The problem is that one factory in Italy might make suits for a HUGE number of different stores/labels. A list such as you propose would be a mile long. The better approach is to learn how to evaluate a suit on its own merits. Of course this is quite difficult when the suit is on ebay and you can't see and touch it in person. That is why ebay has become such a name game. However with a little practice and observation you will be able to tell the difference, often just from a picture. If you showed me a clear picture of say, a Naldini suit I could tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is a cheap suit, even if I had never seen one in person. The look is quite unmistakable. Until you have trained your eye to that point it is best to stick with names you know and sellers you trust. And if you are in doubt you can always ask the Style Forum
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So those brands are trying to rip you off by saying they are "Italian?"
No, they are ripping you off when they sell you a cheaply made $300 suit by telling you that it retails for $1995.
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Let it be know I have forever crossed those labels off my list of potential purchases (along with their sellers).
There is nothing inherently wrong with selling these garments. It is the fact that they are often represented as something they are not that is wrong. Naldini and Canaletti (if that is indeed the name of the parent companies, which is highly unlikely) are not to my knowledge selling the suits with a tag attached that says they retail for $1995. It is the ebay sellers that invent that price that are in the wrong. I was guilty of that to some extent when I first started selling on ebay. But at that point I really believed what I was saying about some of my lesser quality merchandise. Before long I knew better, and (with some embarassment) I either stopped selling or at least accurately represented items that are of less than top quality. You are probably not going to find a seller on ebay (or even a department or specialty store) that doesn't sell at least a few fused garments like Boss, Ferre, Armani, or even lesser known Italian labels. There is a demand for those items. I sell a few myself even though I don't particularly like them, mostly because there isn't a sufficient supply of top-end garments. So don't hold it against a seller if some of the things he sells aren't Brioni, or even designer. But DO hold it against him if he consistently and knowingly misrepresents his merchandise.
post #8 of 16
Quote:
Are they made in China and then have "Made in Italy" tags sewn in by Italians in Italy?
I can't comment on that as I don't know for sure. It's really beside the point though as there there is not really any truth to the idea that a garment is better just because it was made in Italy. The popularity of the "Made in Italy" label among American men is really the result of a long, intense advertising effort. In fact when I first started to become interested in clothing I bought an awful lot of merchandise just because it was (or at least it was supposed to have been) made in Italy.
post #9 of 16
A.Harris: I mispelled the Robert Caravalli. I looked it up and it is actually Roberto Cavalli. Do you know this brand? Thanks.
post #10 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
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Let it be know I have forever crossed those labels off my list of potential purchases (along with their sellers).  
There is nothing inherently wrong with selling these garments. It is the fact that they are often represented as something they are not that is wrong. Naldini and Canaletti (if that is indeed the name of the parent companies, which is highly unlikely) are not to my knowledge selling the suits with a tag attached that says they retail for $1995. It is the ebay sellers that invent that price that are in the wrong. I was guilty of that to some extent when I first started selling on ebay. But at that point I really believed what I  was saying about some of my lesser quality merchandise. Before long I knew better, and (with some embarassment) I either stopped selling or at least accurately represented items that are of less than top quality. You are probably not going to find a seller on ebay (or even a department or specialty store) that doesn't sell at least a few fused garments like Boss, Ferre, Armani, or even lesser known Italian labels. There is a demand for those items. I sell a few myself even though I don't particularly like them, mostly because there isn't a sufficient supply of top-end garments. So don't hold it against a seller if some of the things he sells aren't Brioni, or even designer. But DO hold it against him if he consistently and knowingly misrepresents his merchandise.
In the case that sparked my original post the seller was clearly marketing the suit as a high-end item, and in that case I wouldn't buy from that particular seller. It's funny how similar this "hobby" resembles high-end audio; something I actually know a great deal about. In a way, you could say most of these "Made in Italy" suits are "Bose" quality; to my eternal dismay, most people think of Bose as audiophile-grade product. It would take all of thirty seconds listening to B&W Nautilus speakers driven by Krell amplification to know that Bose is not high-end. Not that Bose is inherently bad; it's just that the name has become synonomous with audiophile music reproduction which is simply untrue. It appears that the "Made in Italy" label has taken on a similar meaning in the clothing industry. The obvious difference in my comparison with Bose, of course, is that plenty of stuff made in Italy is B&W/Krell quality. As I doubt I will ever have your level of knowledge in the clothing arena I will take your advice and stick to the established high-end labels; and keep reading and learning. Z
post #11 of 16
I actually have seen those types of brands in my occasional forays into the Marshalls type of stores. But then I also see makers such as Dunhill, Zegna or Armani Collezioni(not the best, I know) at those stores too. Sometimes Off Fifth has good suits as in the aforementioned Ermenegildo Zegna line, Giorgio Armani Le Collezione, and also the okay Hugo Boss line but I have not seen Baldessarini. However I once saw Lorenzini shirts for $45 with 20%. Quite a good deal there. As to the brands Maxim mentioned Ruffo leather is some of the best as A.Harris mentioned, and Versace's leather goods are mAde by them. Their shoes however are not as they are made by Cesare Paciotti if I recall. Jean Paul Gaultier is a very excellent if not fantastically weird brand, and Roberto Cavalli is kind of Versaceish with a rock star fixation. All in all equally flamboyant. Alfred Dunhill is again an excellent brand with a slightly staid image they are apparently trying to revamp as hip. I like to call it the Burberry effect as looking alSo at Pringle's new look. I have not experienced the specific handling of such suits as Sartoria Menchentti so I cannot comment on what brands to watch out for per se. However here are some brands to watch out as in they are very good. Isaia Alfred Dunhill Zegna- many lines Giorgio Armani- many lines being Black Label the best Attolini Kiton Ozwald Boateng Ralph Lauren Purple Label Cerruti 1881- not Nino Cerruti Burberry Prosum(sp) The Gianni Versace line with the white tag, and the black border Brioni Stefano Ricci Bijan Loro Piana- mainly textile mill, and wool items Alexander McQueen- many lines And the many Saville Row establishments as Huntsman, Hardy Amies, and etc. There are many others but do not take the tag in itself. There are small sublte details such as working cuff buttons, a nicely worked buttonhole, a different type of cloth for the inner sleeve lining, various fronts, and etc. Have a good sartorial adventure, and happy hunting.
post #12 of 16
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Zegna- many lines Giorgio Armani- many lines being Black Label the best
I would avoid the Zegna soft line; and the best line for Armani is actually the blue (classico) line.
post #13 of 16
Further question on this topic: I was in NYC and picked up a pair of "Lorenzo Uomo" flat front stretch wool pants at century 21 for $60. The fit is nice and the fabric drapes well, but I don't know enough about the particulars of trouser construction to tell much about the quality of the pant. Can anyone give any insight on this designer? They did have the wary "made in Italy" tag sewn in the back.
post #14 of 16
Thread Starter 
Here's a question: Isaia has a "GianLuca" line. Is this a huge step-down in quality from the main line? Thanks, Z
post #15 of 16
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Here's a question:  Isaia has a "GianLuca" line.  Is this a huge step-down in quality from the main line? Thanks, Z
I have previously written about this.  Isaia has only one line now, which is Gianluca Isaia.  They do not make under Enrico Isaia label anymore for quite some time. My last post on this topic: "ISAIA: Isaia chiefly uses fabrics from Italian mills (the names of which eluded me at this moment, but I can find out for you later), either for their ready-made or custom-made.  A Gianluca Isaia shoulder pad includes: (from bottom to top) a layer of linen, cotton felt and a small piece of linen for basic insulation, then another linen-cottonfelt-linen, topped with one last piece of linen.  Apparently more padding than Kiton, but the cotton felt pieces are very thin.  This pad is about 3/8" wider than the suit fabric, and the arm is attached to that 3/8".  (I hope you could visualize from my poor English writing.  In another words, if you rip off the sleeve, 3/8" of the shoulder pad will be showing.)  This is very important as some other shoulders are made differently.  This 3/8" makes for a straighter drop from the shoulder to your elbow, but will create a slight bulge half-inch from the arm-hole seam.  Different house controls this half-inch differently (some more, some less).  The sleeves are "˜attached' instead of "˜tucked in' (as in Attolini's). The recent Gianluca Isaia suits feature high gorge, where the V points towards the shoulder. The main difference between Enrico and Gianluca is in the fabric and the waist band of the pants.  The Enrico line deals with more exclusive fabrics, and the waist band is handset.  The Gianluca line has less hand work in the waist band, though Isaia insists that it would not make any difference.  Well, only time will tell. From a marketing standpoint, Enrico Isaia did offer a higher level of hand work.  However, now they did away with the Enrico label and increase the level of the Gianluca line.  Also, Gianluca is the grandson of the founder, and he does personal fittings worldwide, chiefly designing many of the models you are wearing now; thus for the time being we are seeing the Gianluca label everywhere." Naturlaut
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