Roetzel: Truth about Custom Shoes

Originally Posted by The Swede

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To be fair, it is not improbable that he wrote the text in German. Might just be the translation.

Fair enough, I'll retract if that is the case.

In some respects, Roetzel's book presaged the future visual presentation style of today's AAAC:




- B

Originally Posted by bengal-stripe

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Bernhard Roetzel, throwing the cat among the pigeons: "First of all, not all custom shoes are great. A lot of them don’t fit properly. Others don’t look elegant and some are not well made. Thus it would be more honest to state that custom shoes are fantastic if they are built around a last that fits* and if the craftmen know what they are doing. If this is not the case custom shoes are a nightmare and worse than the average factory product." Has he got a point?
It's sophistry, is what it is. Fit is so subjective that Roetzel's statement bears only passing resemblance to truth. For all the mismatched heelseat or treadline widths, heel-to-ball lengths, over-adequate instep girths, etc., that people swear is a "perfect fit," I suspect many people wouldn't know what a perfect fit was...or more importantly appreciate it...if it hit them square between the eyes.

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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In some respects, Roetzel's book presaged the future visual presentation style of today's AAAC:

- B

Are those AE seconds with a JAB suit?

Originally Posted by taxgenius69

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Are those AE seconds with a JAB suit?

Sorry, I think that you are confusing SF with Ask Andy!

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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In some respects, Roetzel's book presaged the future visual presentation style of today's AAAC:

- B

Well, he got the Zimmerli part certainly.

Originally Posted by DWFII

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For all the mismatched heelseat or treadline widths, heel-to-ball lengths, over-adequate instep girths, etc., that people swear is a "perfect fit," I suspect many people wouldn't know what a perfect fit was...or more importantly appreciate it...if it hit them square between the eyes.

Confused

Does that statement refer to shoemakers or their clients?

Originally Posted by bengal-stripe

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Bernhard Roetzel, throwing the cat among the pigeons:




Has he got a point?

Me have man make bespoke hand stitched shoe,
me must watch him careful because lot can go wrong,
me make sure he use quality material and not skip steps.
lt very risky project.
Me buy him the best materials.
Me think about using Dacron instead of linen thread,
but need to learn proper waxing method.
it a trick project.
He capable if pushed to do best.

Originally Posted by DWFII

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It's sophistry, is what it is. Fit is so subjective that Roetzel's statement bears only passing resemblance to truth.
Yes,
some like lose fit,
some like tight fit.
Feet shape change during day,
does shoe ever fit perfect?

Originally Posted by DWFII

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For all the mismatched heelseat or treadline widths, heel-to-ball lengths, over-adequate instep girths, etc., that people swear is a "perfect fit," I suspect many people wouldn't know what a perfect fit was...or more importantly appreciate it...if it hit them square between the eyes.
very true.

Originally Posted by bengal-stripe

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Confused

Does that statement refer to shoemakers or their clients?
Both in a way...but I was thinking mainly of RTW. That's the comparison that Roetzel is making isn't it? People buying RTW shoes often don't get what could objectively be called a good fit. In most cases, that is by choice. If such an individual then decides to have a pair of bespoke shoes made and they don't fit like off-the-shelf, they think that they are misfit. Are they? Ultimately...the responsibility for a good fit (or even a personally satisfying fit), regardless of whether the shoes are RTW or bespoke, lies on the shoulders of the client. And to a far greater degree than it lies on the shoulders of the maker...RTW or bespoke. Similarly...the responsibility for a well made, aesthetically elegant shoe (by whatever standard) lies more with the client than the shoemaker. If an individual is not well versed...doesn't understand and can not appreciate the nuance and subtleties of what makes a fine shoe (or a good fit) versus what makes a mediocre shoe...then that person is not ready for a bespoke shoe. They're not really even ready for a high-end RTW shoe. All money is wasted...even when buying the highest of high-end OTR...if it is spent without insight and knowledge (or on the advice of some relatively congenial member of an Internet forum). And, more importantly, such uneducated "votes" underwrite mediocrity...and the inexorable slippage of quality that we see in shoemaking, regardless of origin. Beyond that, what truth there is in Roetzel's observations is so obvious, and so applicable across the board--from RTW to MTM to bespoke--that to treat it like some great insight or epiphany is silly and misleading. Sophistry.

^This all makes sense, and is good advice imho, DW. We had a recent thread about the same question but with a focus on suits. That was where I made the post I referred to on the first page, namely

Originally Posted by emptym

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From what I read, there is bespoke, and there is Chris Despos. Kind of like how there is wit, and there is Vox, or snark and the late RJman.
I could easily say there are bespoke boots and there is DWFII. I almost said "shoes" instead of boots, but I thought you'd be uncomfortable with that for now. They day will come, I'm sure, since even the first fit models (shoes and boot) you sent a couple months ago were so comfortable and supportive that I could run in them. The second ones were even better, and I'm confident the third will be perfect. Thank you for a fun and educational process. I've learned a ton from our exchanges (like the 2 hr phone call last week!). I agree heartily w/ what you wrote about clients needing to be educated before venturing into high end rtw or bespoke. My journey has gone from LL Bean, Florsheim, and Sebago* through Gucci, Bally, and Church's to Alden, Martegani/Rider, C&J, EG, and Alfred Sargent. At 36, I've had a fair amt. of experimentation with new, used, rtw, mto, and custom shoes from various companies, and I hope that I've educated myself enough to make some informed decisions, such as commissioning the georges from you and the loafers from Aimee. Of course, even if this is so, I continue to learn much from you and from her, and I hope to till I die. You have also both been very accommodating. So I think what you wrote about the client bearing the majority of responsibility for fit and aesthetics is true, if the maker gives the client what the client wants -- as you do (after providing your helpful, expert opinion). Of course, makers don't always do that. I've ordered more than a few things that did not come out the way I requested, sometimes for the better, but not usually, imo. *it might have ended with a return to these, had they maintained their previous levels of quality.

Originally Posted by DWFII

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It's sophistry, is what it is.

Say that again, with a thick Cockney accent.

Mom, am I bespoke?

Originally Posted by Cary Grant

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Say that again, with a thick Cockney accent.
I don't do Cockney...but in my head I heard it with a Highland burr. Tioraidh

Originally Posted by DWFII

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I suspect many people wouldn't know what a perfect fit was...or more importantly appreciate it...if it hit them square between the eyes.

Perhaps between the eyes is the wrong end of the body for such appreciation.

I have a serviceable definition of a "perfect fit". It is when you have spent a day on your feet without having been aware of your shoes. When they effectively disappear, I know I am wearing shoes which fit me in the way I can only describe as "perfect".

(Conversely, there are shoes, the majority of shoes for the majority of wearers, I'm guessing, which fit in such a way - imperfectly - that we are, at least subliminally, aware of our feet with every step.)