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Cocktails - An Adventure in Modern Gender Roles

post #1 of 123
8/5/10 at 11:41pm
Thread Starter 
Not only did it used to be that a man could walk into just about any bar and order a gimlet and it wasnt thought of as strange, but that man would have been given a gin gimlet in a cocktail glass. Nowadays you have to be aggressive and specific if you walk up to a bar wanting to get a drink like that. But you can't even say, "Gin gimlet, up," because no one knows what the hell you're talking about, so they'll serve it in a whiskey glass with some ice. So you have to say "Gin gimlet in a cocktail glass," if you even want the drink. No one expects a man to know, much less want, a traditional cocktail served properly. But here's my question: Why are cocktails, in cocktail glasses, suddenly considered feminine? James Bond loved cocktails. There are volumes of iconic images and movies of some suave mofos dressed to the nines, drinkin cocktails. So what happened? And I'm not even a cocktail buff or anything. Hell, I'd just as soon drink the gin straight as drink it in a gimlet. I'm just wondering what happened to make cocktails just a "chick" thing, when up till relatively recently, it wasnt at all.
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post #2 of 123
8/5/10 at 11:43pm
A clear drink in a cocktail glass is never feminine. A colored one is.
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post #3 of 123
8/5/10 at 11:45pm
Thread Starter 
Gimlets arent really clear, they should have a natural greenish tinge because of the (lightly sweetened) lime juice. How do you feel about that? And so for you its the color, not the actual glass or the fact that it is a "mixed" drink?
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post #4 of 123
8/5/10 at 11:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Italian Cut View Post
Gimlets arent really clear, they should have a natural greenish tinge because of the (lightly sweetened) lime juice. How do you feel about that? And so for you its the color, not the actual glass or the fact that it is a "mixed" drink?
To me a classic martini will always be a man's drink, but maybe I'm old fashioned. If it is red or apple green, well, not so manly. Edit: Martini in a suit or tux is always awesome.
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post #5 of 123
8/5/10 at 11:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroStyles View Post
To me a classic martini will always be a man's drink, but maybe I'm old fashioned. If it is red or apple green, well, not so manly.

Edit: Martini in a suit or tux is always awesome.

I'm hip. Really colorful drinks are girly, no question.

but this?:



Like the Martini, the gimlet, and other such cocktails, are definitely men's drinks.

But I'm not sure thats the prevailing opinion, and im simply curious as to why.


And yes, the better dressed you are, the easier it is to pull off a cocktail
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post #6 of 123
8/6/10 at 12:13am
I think a lot of guys learn to drink in high school/college when it's forbidden to do so, so they aren't familiar with alcohol being a pleasant thing to drink, and they'll seize on any possible convention that will allow them to prove their masculinity. Then also they can use booze as a way to prove their maturity, that they're having WHISKEY to drink and not Kool-Aid or whatever, and they don't want any cola or soda water or anything that would mess up the image they assume they're projecting. Women at that age face less of a stigmata about acting young, and they can order a Cuba Libre, etc. without seeming juvenile.

And there's the old "women are fragile, men are durable" stereotype where men who want a cocktail obviously are too feminine to be able to handle a real drink, i.e. straight liquor.
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post #7 of 123
8/6/10 at 1:11am
Lots of places 'round here where you can get a respectable gimlet.
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post #8 of 123
8/6/10 at 1:19am
All this gimlet talk made me make one. Hope it's not too girly:



2 parts Plymouth
1 part lime juice
1 part simple syrup
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post #9 of 123
8/6/10 at 2:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Italian Cut View Post
But here's my question: Why are cocktails, in cocktail glasses, suddenly considered feminine? James Bond loved cocktails. I'm just wondering what happened to make cocktails just a "chick" thing, when up till relatively recently, it wasnt at all.
Oh, this is an easy one. Three factors: 1) cocktails became dumbed-down 2)not not-particularly-discerning (or educated re cocktails) women started drinking them more. 3) The predominately insecure male population then had to move away from cocktails because women were drinking them -- thus they were not manly enough. Really, it's a fairly common phenomenon. The concept of masculinity has become so eroded that men think it is merely being more 'hardcore' if you will, than women in all things. It's really lame. ~ H
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post #10 of 123
8/6/10 at 2:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroStyles View Post
A clear drink in a cocktail glass is never feminine. A colored one is.

Do you consider a manhattan a girls drink?
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post #11 of 123
8/6/10 at 2:25am
Whenever I order a vodka martini I always feel like it would be similar to asking for a scotch on the rocks or something like that, definitely more masculine than feminine. A lychee martini, or something with raspberry or lemon in it, however...then it gets feminine. I tend to prefer the simpler "clear" martinis myself, though.
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post #12 of 123
8/6/10 at 2:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroStyles View Post
A clear drink in a cocktail glass is never feminine. A colored one is.

Lol. This is really dumb.
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post #13 of 123
8/6/10 at 2:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwilkinson View Post
Lol. This is really dumb.

+1
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post #14 of 123
8/6/10 at 3:57am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntsman View Post
Oh, this is an easy one. Three factors: 1) cocktails became dumbed-down 2)not not-particularly-discerning (or educated re cocktails) women started drinking them more. 3) The predominately insecure male population then had to move away from cocktails because women were drinking them -- thus they were not manly enough.

Really, it's a fairly common phenomenon. The concept of masculinity has become so eroded that men think it is merely being more 'hardcore' if you will, than women in all things. It's really lame.

~ H

Good answers. I'll buy that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enjoiii View Post
Do you consider a manhattan a girls drink?

Hell no. My great grandfather drank them all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomgirl View Post
Whenever I order a vodka martini I always feel like it would be similar to asking for a scotch on the rocks or something like that, definitely more masculine than feminine. A lychee martini, or something with raspberry or lemon in it, however...then it gets feminine. I tend to prefer the simpler "clear" martinis myself, though.


I can dig it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by I<3Bacon View Post
All this gimlet talk made me make one. Hope it's not too girly:



2 parts Plymouth
1 part lime juice
1 part simple syrup

Looks good.
Not what I'd use, but good.

Personally,

>1 part Tanqueray or Gordon's
<1 part Rose's Sweetened Lime Juice


Quote:
Originally Posted by binge View Post
Lots of places 'round here where you can get a respectable gimlet.

That is good to hear. Do you actually get a gin gimlet in a cocktail glass when you just ask for a "gimlet" though? Thats my question... If not, do they understand what you mean when you order it "up"? ;]
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post #15 of 123
8/6/10 at 8:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by enjoiii View Post
Do you consider a manhattan a girls drink?

Yep. Just listen to that Tom Waits song with Bette Midler "I never talk to strangers". It's the chick who orders a Manhattan. Ha, proven right by Tom Waits himself. Can't argue with Tom Waits.
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