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My new F430 - Page 10

post #136 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Canvas
It is a rally today. It is a Phoenix of sorts. The rally began in the 1980s.

However, in its original incarnation, it was an actual race on Mexican highways beginning in 1950 or 1951. Rather than on a closed-circuit race track, the event was held on highway stages. Porsche named its Carrera in honor of their many class wins with the then tiny-engined cars they built.

When Levegh crashed his Mercedes at LeMans in 1955 and killed a goodly number of spectators, the Mexican authorities cancelled the Carrera Panamericana indefinitely. Racing had a black eye for quite some time.
________________________________
Indeed, Becker also named their old radios after the various victories like the Becker Mexico, Europa, etc.

And I believe after the Le Mans crash, Mercedes-Benz only resumed racing in the '80s which gave BMW an edge.
post #137 of 181
As for daily drivers, Dr.Ignacio Barraquer ordered a Mercedes-Benz 540K Autobahn Kurier (Eva Braun also owned one; Wilhelm I had one with his arms emblazoned) in 1939 and subsequently took it for desert runs and general usage. In one instance in Africa, the cylinder head blew and the good doctor thought nothing of it to change the head and continue on his way. These days, a supercar going for any trip would probably have bloggers detailing its every move lest a blown head.
post #138 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by visionology
Aren't Ferraris and reliability sort of unknown points? Most people don't use their Ferrari as a daily driver, putting on tens of thousands of miles a year and I've never heard of a newer model Ferrari passing 100K miles which is just a midlife for any typical japanese car. So how would one know how reliable they are if they've never been driven long enough to rate?
First, selecting 100,000 miles as a benchmark of reliability is silly. I don't know a single person who owns/drives a car with 100,000 miles. One could easily drive any current model F-car as a daily driver provided they don't mind being gawked at on a regular basis, they remain mindful of the front overhang, and are willing to spend the money to maintain their vehicle. I have to roll my eyes whenever I hear somebody going on about how unreliable F-cars are. I have to assume this view is from a lack of time spent with the marque. Any problem cars I'm familiar with are due to deferred/improper maintenance--which is relatively common because of expense. But a lack of proper maintenance creates reliability issues with any vehicle, and not just Ferraris, right? The main difference versus "normal" marques is that the cost of proper mainenance in Ferrari-land can be prohibitive for most. As an example, the F355 (now 2 models old) major service with belts and tensioners requires the removal of the motor can run in the $10-$12,000 at an authorized dealer. Newer models, such as the F430, are much more maintenance friendly, but will still be expensive on a comparative basis.
post #139 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by LabelKing
As for daily drivers, Dr.Ignacio Barraquer ordered a Mercedes-Benz 540K Autobahn Kurier (Eva Braun also owned one; Wilhelm I had one with his arms emblazoned) in 1939 and subsequently took it for desert runs and general usage. In one instance in Africa, the cylinder head blew and the good doctor thought nothing of it to change the head and continue on his way.

These days, a supercar going for any trip would probably have bloggers detailing its every move lest a blown head.


OMG, a 540K Spezial Coupe! Drool....

Jon.
post #140 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by saunderscc
First, selecting 100,000 miles as a benchmark of reliability is silly. I don't know a single person who owns/drives a car with 100,000 miles.

Perhaps you have a small acquaintance, or a large acquaintance of leasers?

saunderscc, meet Huntsman. Huntsman, saunderscc.

My Jag's just a few away from 100k. My father's daily driver is 140k (in 5 years), the old Blazer is better than 750k, the Oldsmobile, when we sold it, was at 176k. In an era of ever-longer commutes, 100k is not a silly benchmark for a daily driver at all. Perhaps silly only in that it is not a high enough figure. Something like zip's F430 is a different class -- you may pay some reliability in fun, but isn't that expected? The great engineering lets you have it both ways to some degree, but not to equivalence.

Regards,
Huntsman
post #141 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntsman
100k is not a silly benchmark for a daily driver at all. Perhaps silly only in that it is not a high enough figure.
I'm going to assume that the average car driven by the average American has far fewer miles than 100,000 on the odometer. In fact, I'm going to assume the average US driver will never own the same vehicle over a 100,000 mile cycle. Although, I don't particularly care enough to research the statistic. So, I may be wrong. Perhaps, you should check the definition of reliability? Then, it might be appropriate to measure the duration or probability of failure-free performance under stated conditions. Say, the average duration for manufacturers' warranties in time/mileage? In any case, an arbitrary 100,000 mile (or longer, as you suggest) measure of reliability is beyond silly IMO. Especially when you consider the average annual mileage assumed by most manufacturers to be 12-15,000 miles per annum.
post #142 of 181
My '60s Mercedes-Benz has over 290,000 miles. In fact, I just received a mileage award with a nice grille badge from Mercedes-Benz. This has more to do with the inferior quality that modern cars have which are designed to expire at or slightly above 100,000 miles.
post #143 of 181
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LabelKing
My '60s Mercedes-Benz has over 290,000 miles. In fact, I just received a mileage award with a nice grille badge from Mercedes-Benz.

This has more to do with the inferior quality that modern cars have which are designed to expire at or slightly above 100,000 miles.
That's awesome. I've had a couple of modern cars die at or around 100,000. Germans really do build tanks. (No joke intended. Well, I guess a little one.)
post #144 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by zjpj83
That's awesome. I've had a couple of modern cars die at or around 100,000. Germans really do build tanks. (No joke intended. Well, I guess a little one.)
They also have a mileage award for the million mile mark which is something to strive for.

Here is a couple with a 280SE that now has over a million miles:

http://www.mbusa.com/heritage/histor...illion-mile.do

And 4.6 million KM!

http://www.mbusa.com/heritage/history/news/taxi.do
post #145 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by saunderscc
I'm going to assume that the average car driven by the average American has far fewer miles than 100,000 on the odometer. In fact, I'm going to assume the average US driver will never own the same vehicle over a 100,000 mile cycle. Although, I don't particularly care enough to research the statistic. So, I may be wrong. Perhaps, you should check the definition of reliability? Then, it might be appropriate to measure the duration or probability of failure-free performance under stated conditions. Say, the average duration for manufacturers' warranties in time/mileage? In any case, an arbitrary 100,000 mile (or longer, as you suggest) measure of reliability is beyond silly IMO. Especially when you consider the average annual mileage assumed by most manufacturers to be 12-15,000 miles per annum.
Z- great car. Please do enjoy. I agree with Huntsman. While almost all cars need some maintenance work around 75k to 100k miles (brakes, etc), there is something about a car that makes that 100k refresh and then keeps going strong. My sister has a 92 camry still rolling fine at 200K+ miles. Its a great car. A performance car with those kinds of miles would also be fun to see.
post #146 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesbond
I was watching an episode of 5th gear where they got to take an enzo and a mclaren f1 out on the open roads and he mentioned the recommended maintanence on a the F1 costs around 30k every 6,000 miles or something around there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkfvQvc9ipI
post #147 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzl

thats a good video thanks for passing it along...I want to see a comparison video of the Veyron to the F1 though. I think the Veyron will finally put the F1 to rest as the greatest sports car ever.
post #148 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntsman
Perhaps you have a small acquaintance, or a large acquaintance of leasers?

saunderscc, meet Huntsman. Huntsman, saunderscc.

My Jag's just a few away from 100k. My father's daily driver is 140k (in 5 years), the old Blazer is better than 750k, the Oldsmobile, when we sold it, was at 176k. In an era of ever-longer commutes, 100k is not a silly benchmark for a daily driver at all. Perhaps silly only in that it is not a high enough figure. Something like zip's F430 is a different class -- you may pay some reliability in fun, but isn't that expected? The great engineering lets you have it both ways to some degree, but not to equivalence.

Regards,
Huntsman

I own two cars over 100k miles. I have a Subaru Loyale station wagon with 198k, still going strong, and a Chevy Suburban SUV with 102k, also still going strong. Neither car has had much in the way of major repairs, just tune-ups, oil changes, and the like.

I put a lot of miles on my cars. My other Subaru (an STi) has close to 40k miles on it in two and 1/2 years, and I put 22k miles on my Viper in my first 2 years of ownership.

So, I'd say that 100k is a good starting point for judging a car's reliability.
post #149 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by TIEALIGN
I think the Veyron will finally put the F1 to rest as the greatest sports car ever.

It won't for me, because the Veyron is not a very elegantly engineered car. The best thing about the F1 was how they started from sound first principles, and as a result, produced a car that did so many amazing things without specifically aiming for those things. The Veyron was engineered to specifically be the best at some of those things, and they had some trouble doing it without resorting to inelegant solutions tacked on at the end (eg. the car has a different configuration for its high speed run). The Veyron is nowhere as pure a design as the F1.

If I had to get a current production supercar, the Porsche Carrera GT or a Ferrari V8 of some sort would be my choices, but it's still the Big Mac uber alles.

--Andre
post #150 of 181
Thread Starter 
Veyron is gross in my opinion. Horrible design that is not aesthetically pleasing to me, and at the end of the day they were trying to make the fastest car they could -- not the complete package.
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