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Tips on Spotting Fake Rolexes - Page 9

post #121 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by atila View Post

Apparently, the guy makes 500k a year and has all these liquid assets and apparently even has his own AIRPLANE! So, what does he have to prove? Why wouldn't he admit they are fake? I was expecting the exact opposite response.
Then again, I also don't believe this person is real.

500k HHI cannot afford a personal jet. It may be enough for a small prop plane. Actually, 500k in a major city (NYC, SF, LA, Chcago, London, Paris, etc.) is pretty "middle class" style living. FWIW, I can understand the appeal of a fake Rolex for a nouveau riche/aspiring type person
Edited by norcaltransplant - 8/28/12 at 7:27pm
post #122 of 186
mingus2112, well spoken. My sentiments exactly.

Can't kill da rooster, you are right. Not many people notice any of the watches I am wearing. How can they? I wear a long sleeve shirt and a coat over that. But I know, and I enjoy wearing my watches. I guess women who wear sexy lingere feel the same way.

Dddrees, thank you. Now I can tell my ball and chain that I'm not obsessed with watches, I'm merely a WIS.

And Reevolving, I don't get it. Your "friend" makes $500,000 a year, has $500,000 in liquid assets, AND FLIES PRIVATE or did you say he had his own plane? Ha ha ha. That's a joke. I have flown and sometimes fly private, actually corporate, thanks to multi-billion dollar corporations that allow me to hitch a ride when I am traveling with their top executives. I know the cost. You ain't flying private on that kind of money. Or maybe your "friend" has a single engine prop plane. You know that doesn't count. Otherwise it's a fair statement to make when you talk about ranch hands and miners. On $500,000 you probably can't afford a car and driver.
post #123 of 186
Interesting point about how good fake Rolexes are getting these days. I wonder if that is one of the reasons vintage Rolexes are getting quite popular in Asia. It is more difficult to fake the patina of a 30-40 year old watch - not to mention the different sizes, fonts and other details. Fake vintage and Frakenwatches do exist but perhaps the barrier to entry is higher.
post #124 of 186

The saying goes:

 

If there's money to be made then they will find a way to make money.

 

There's all kinds of ways to make money on vintage watches as well.

 

 

There's another saying when it comes to buying luxury watches:

 

Buy the seller.

post #125 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by norcaltransplant View Post


500k HHI cannot afford a personal jet. It may be enough for a small prop plane. Actually, 500k in a major city (NYC, SF, LA, Chcago, London, Paris, etc.) is pretty "middle class" style living. FWIW, as an aspirational type person, I understand the appeal of a fake Rolex.

Agree. 500k HHI is nowhere near enough to own a jet. Maybe a jet "card", those can be had for about 100k, but are limited in regard to actual flight time. Have to disagree on the 500 being middle class living, though (even in major cities). 

post #126 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reevolving View Post

You buy luxury for a superior product.
However, with watches you get an inferior product, ironically.
People buy costly watches to impress others with logos and name brands.

I guess most of us will have to agree to disagree with you on this statement. I believe your logic is flawed. Maybe you can't see the value or need for an expensive timepiece. If you just want something that keeps close to good time that you can pretend is expensive, then I guess your cheap replica will do. I don't see why you would spend $300 on a cheap fake Rolex when you could get twice the watch if you bought something real. I wore an Invicta 9937c today, which has the same look as a Rolex Submariner. One glance at it and you know it is NOT a Rolex. It's got a Swiss movement in it, similar to the ones found in "swiss replicas," but with a big difference. Automatic movements are machines. They need service, cleaning and lubrication just like an automobile. When I need to get this watch serviced, it will cost me ~$100 to get done - and this is a great deal from a skilled watchmaker. When you buy a cheap replica, that "swiss movement" is either used, a "factory second" or just old. You can bet that they are not cleaned, serviced, adjusted and timed like a watch from a reputable manufacturer is when it's purchased. I have a mixture of watches, from $100 Seikos to $3000 Omegas and I wear them for me. I'm by no means rich - I just appreciate watches.

With all of that out of the way, you still have yet to explain how you are getting an inferior product when you purchase a luxury timepiece. Real value is subjective - it's obviously what people are willing to pay for it. Obviously you and your friend are not willing to pay for luxury watches - but why again does that make them inferior and what, exactly, are they inferior to? Inferior to a replica with a dirty, unregulated movement that may die on you one day? Inferior to the replica that Authorized dealers won't work on? The salesmen - and maybe even the inhouse jeweler - at Tourneau may not have been able to tell by glancing in the back, but they'll certainly know when they try to repair it. Looking at the movement, they'll spot the Swiss ETA (or cheap chinese) movement in a Rolex that's supposed to have an in house movement in it. They'll discover the generic ETA movement in that Omega Seamaster that's supposed to have the modified ETA movement with Coaxial Escapement. Even if they're not working on the inside and are changing the band - why doesn't a genuine new bracelet fit on the watch?

I could tell you stories about my super rich friend who makes well over a million dollars a year, wears Jos. A. Bank suits (because it's really the same thing as Brioni - and, in fact, he tells everyone it's Brioni!), drives a Honda and laughs at all his friends who waste their money on those inferior BMWs, Lexus, etc, but I can't. That guy doesn't exist. The fact is that you can wear your Jos A Bank suits if they fit you well, drive your Honda if that's the right car for you and wear your $25 Timex that probably looks fantastic on a NATO strap. Just don't tell other people that their more expensive suits, cars and watches are inferior - it's just not true.
post #127 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by mingus2112 View Post

I guess most of us will have to agree to disagree with you on this statement. I believe your logic is flawed. Maybe you can't see the value or need for an expensive timepiece. If you just want something that keeps close to good time that you can pretend is expensive, then I guess your cheap replica will do. I don't see why you would spend $300 on a cheap fake Rolex when you could get twice the watch if you bought something real. I wore an Invicta 9937c today, which has the same look as a Rolex Submariner. One glance at it and you know it is NOT a Rolex. It's got a Swiss movement in it, similar to the ones found in "swiss replicas," but with a big difference. Automatic movements are machines. They need service, cleaning and lubrication just like an automobile. When I need to get this watch serviced, it will cost me ~$100 to get done - and this is a great deal from a skilled watchmaker. When you buy a cheap replica, that "swiss movement" is either used, a "factory second" or just old. You can bet that they are not cleaned, serviced, adjusted and timed like a watch from a reputable manufacturer is when it's purchased. I have a mixture of watches, from $100 Seikos to $3000 Omegas and I wear them for me. I'm by no means rich - I just appreciate watches.
With all of that out of the way, you still have yet to explain how you are getting an inferior product when you purchase a luxury timepiece. Real value is subjective - it's obviously what people are willing to pay for it. Obviously you and your friend are not willing to pay for luxury watches - but why again does that make them inferior and what, exactly, are they inferior to? Inferior to a replica with a dirty, unregulated movement that may die on you one day? Inferior to the replica that Authorized dealers won't work on? The salesmen - and maybe even the inhouse jeweler - at Tourneau may not have been able to tell by glancing in the back, but they'll certainly know when they try to repair it. Looking at the movement, they'll spot the Swiss ETA (or cheap chinese) movement in a Rolex that's supposed to have an in house movement in it. They'll discover the generic ETA movement in that Omega Seamaster that's supposed to have the modified ETA movement with Coaxial Escapement. Even if they're not working on the inside and are changing the band - why doesn't a genuine new bracelet fit on the watch?
I could tell you stories about my super rich friend who makes well over a million dollars a year, wears Jos. A. Bank suits (because it's really the same thing as Brioni - and, in fact, he tells everyone it's Brioni!), drives a Honda and laughs at all his friends who waste their money on those inferior BMWs, Lexus, etc, but I can't. That guy doesn't exist. The fact is that you can wear your Jos A Bank suits if they fit you well, drive your Honda if that's the right car for you and wear your $25 Timex that probably looks fantastic on a NATO strap. Just don't tell other people that their more expensive suits, cars and watches are inferior - it's just not true.

+1
post #128 of 186
It's extrmely naive to post the way Reevolving posts - you make your "friend" sound extremely dense, pompous, and obnoxious - but someone SO successful would be pretty good about not being all of that. Most of your story sounds like conjecture, you making of scenarios based on an theory, or something.

And I threw in that bit about his friend having a private plane on purpose - no one who makes $500k has a private jet.


Anyways, I know it may be hard for you to understand, but for some of us, a watch is more than just a way to impress people - it is our relationship with time. It may sound corny or it may sound stupid, but it can really come down to that. That's the best way I can explain why I wear a nice watch. And if that doesn't make sense to you, it doesn't really matter.
post #129 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by norcaltransplant View Post

500k HHI cannot afford a personal jet. .

...that is, unless the cockpit is in his living room......







post #130 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by mingus2112 View Post

I could tell you stories about my super rich friend who makes well over a million dollars a year, wears Jos. A. Bank suits (because it's really the same thing as Brioni - and, in fact, he tells everyone it's Brioni!), drives a Honda and laughs at all his friends who waste their money on those inferior BMWs, Lexus, etc, but I can't. That guy doesn't exist. The fact is that you can wear your Jos A Bank suits if they fit you well, drive your Honda if that's the right car for you and wear your $25 Timex that probably looks fantastic on a NATO strap. Just don't tell other people that their more expensive suits, cars and watches are inferior - it's just not true.

JAB suits are not comparable to Brioni suits
Honda is not comparable to a BMW.
However, a $5000 watch is much more comparable to a $100 Timex.

Why are they inferior? They keep less accurate time than a Seiko. That's why.
They are overpriced, unreliable, and antiquated.
Do you also drive a Model-T to work b/c of the hand craftsmanship?
(And then brag how much you pay to repair it? LOL)

He does not own a plane. He does, however, fly for leisure.
At $500k he's not wealthy, but managing to get by.
The point of those details was that he can easily afford a couple of $5000 watches.
Anyone can, even the blue collar clients he sometimes deals with.
He simply chooses not to spend his money there, as he sees a very poor value.
Instead he spends money on luxury cars, luxury clothing, and luxury real estate.

Also, I do not wear replicas or homages. My friend does.
I wear a vintage Hamilton, a vintage Citizen, and a steel Swatch Irony chrono.
Edited by Reevolving - 8/28/12 at 10:48am
post #131 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reevolving View Post

JAB suits are not comparable to Brioni suits
Honda is not comparable to a BMW.
However, a $5000 watch is much more comparable to a $100 Timex.
Why are they inferior? They keep less accurate time than a Seiko. That's why.
They are overpriced, unreliable, and antiquated.
Do you also drive a Model-T to work b/c of the hand craftsmanship?
(And then brag how much you pay to repair it? LOL)
He does not own a plane. He does, however, fly for leisure.
At $500k he's not wealthy, but managing to get by.
The point of those details was that he can easily afford a couple of $5000 watches.
Anyone can, even the blue collar clients he sometimes deals with.
He simply chooses not to spend his money there, as he sees a very poor value.
Instead he spends money on luxury cars, luxury clothing, and luxury real estate.

Luxury Cars???? Surely you jest. I din't think twice about buying a couple of Patek Philippe's. But I just can't wrap my head around buying a car, let alone a luxury car. I do like them especially the Aston Martin DB8 and the Ferrari F430. But I just can't deal withe the depreciation thing. Not even for a BMW 7, 5, or 3 Series. I like wearing, owning the watches I have, and one thing that makes me believe they aren't totally extravagant wastes of money is that they do retain their value. I can't say that for anything else I own, not my apartment or my financial holdings (besides gold which is just a store of value). I'm lucky that I live in cities with efficient public transportation and have survived without a car. If and when I do buy a car, most likely a Civic or a Kia.

I don't understand the Cognitive Dissonance with Reevolving and his "friend". Luxury Cars...yeah right. Again, on what I would agree is income that would allow you to just get by in a big city.
post #132 of 186
LOL on driving a Kia and wearing a Patek Philippe.
Did you buy your Patek Philippe's new or used?
Do new ones depreciate, hold steady, or appreciate?

If you do not like depreciation on cars, you can buy CPOs.

Also, I do not wear replicas or homages. My friend does.
I wear a vintage Hamilton, a vintage Citizen, and a steel chrono as a beater watch.
I do not need to make up a friend to protect an anonymous internet account.
post #133 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reevolving View Post

JAB suits are not comparable to Brioni suits
Honda is not comparable to a BMW.
However, a $5000 watch is much more comparable to a $100 Timex.
Agreed. JAB is not comparable to Brioni, Honda is not comparable to BMW and a $100 Timex is NOT comparable to a $5000 Rolex. It's just not true. As I said previously, if you don't see the VALUE in owning an expensive timepiece, that's OK. But saying they are inferior to or of lesser quality than a Timex is a dishonest statement.
Quote:
Why are they inferior? They keep less accurate time than a Seiko. That's why.
This statement is pretty telling of your knowledge of watches. I think you are comparing a "$5000 Rolex" to a "$100 Timex" when what you really mean to compare are a "mechanical movement" and a "quartz movement." It's important to note the difference between accuracy and precision. It's easier to make a really precise quartz movement - one that's off by less than 1 second a day. Day after day this watch will lose or gain the exact same amount of time. That's precision. A mechanical watch, due to its moving parts, your movement, etc, is harder to make precise. It could be off 1 second one day, but 4 seconds the next. It all depends on the quality and condition of the movement. Sure, you're paying for the brand name with a watch like Rolex or Omega, but you're also paying for the quality of the movement and the skill of the watchmaker to make it more accurate than the $100 Seiko - which brings me to. . . .

Your $100 Seiko may be quartz, but I have several Seikos that are Automatic. Guess what? They're less accurate than my more expensive Automatics. Actually, Seiko has a line called "Spring Drive" that are several thousands of dollars and are mechanical. Those are VERY accurate AND precise.

You're obviously not interested in the above and, i'll say it again, nothing wrong with that. The problem is that I find it hard to believe that the $300 replica is anywhere near as accurate OR precise as my mechanical Seikos, etc. If you're implying that these replicas have quartz movements (and I highly doubt that. You said they couldn't tell the difference at Tourneau. If the watch was ticking - as a quartz does - rather than sweeping like a mechanical watch, they would have noticed without even opening the back), then what was the point again? At $300 you're paying for an untested $10 quartz movement housed in a stainless steel case.
Quote:
They are overpriced, unreliable, and antiquated.
Overpriced? Maybe. You are, of course, paying for the name. You're also paying for the skill of the craftsmen who made it, the warranty, the value of any precious metals it may be made from, the quality of the leather band, and the expense of the tools needed to make and adjust these watches.

I'm really reminded of when I first became interested in my clothing and found this site. I couldn't understand why people spent so much money on shoes. Corrected grain? Who cares? My $30 Florsheim is made in Taiwan? So what, it looks great. Comfort? My feet don't hurt! Well guess what - the plastic leathery looking coating on my $30 Florsheims completely disintegrated walking for one day in the rain. I'm willing to bet that I'll still have my Allen Edmonds Cliftons and Park Avenues 5 or 10 years from now. I INVESTED in something that wasn't disposable. Laid out more money up front, but i'm sure i'll save money in the future.

-James
post #134 of 186
^^ Meant to say "your friend's $300 replica" in the statement above. You've made it very clear that you are talking about your friend's replicas and that you wear a few vintage watches. I didn't mean to ignore that - it was just the way I wrote it.

-James
post #135 of 186
The easiest way to spot a fake Rolex is: They're always on the wrist of the kind of person who would wear a fake Rolex.
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