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shoe construction...behind the veil - Page 59

post #871 of 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

MM Fireworks 1.0

Same shoe, isn't it?

No. Same issue, different shoe., different shoemaker.

 

This pic was sent to me by another shoe aficionado.

post #872 of 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapasman View Post

No. Same issue, different shoe., different shoemaker.

This pic was sent to me by another shoe aficionado.
What are the consequences for grining in handwelted shoes?
post #873 of 1515
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmss View Post

What are the consequences for grining in handwelted shoes?

The same as for grinning in a GY shoe--the inseam is not tight, dirt and water gets into the interior and wreaks havoc.

For any inseam to be optimal, the welt, upper and insole must function as a unit. And this means that the materials and the techniques must be the best that can be brought to bear. The inseam...and, by extension, the shoe...is only as strong as its weakest link.

In this particular context, it is hard to know what went wrong but some things are quite obvious: I am always suspicious of white inseaming threads, esp. after reading HMSFM. White inseaming thread can (not always) indicate a paraffin based handwax...which will not lock the threads tightly. But a good rosin based handwax is, of course, much harder to make and use.

Also, the standard for inseaming stitches is at least three stitches to the inch and some makers like four or even five to the inch. The stitches in the photos are not much closer than two to the inch and in some places even a little further apart. But inseaming at 2spi takes less than half the time as inseaming at 4spi. The moral of the story is an old one--speed kills.

Finally, as critical as it is...always, always, always...inseaming is hard. It is a skill. It takes time to do it correctly.

It takes time to make up a handwax that will grip both the opposing thread and the leather of the insole. It takes insight and knowledge to choose an insole of sufficient substance and temper to hold the stitches. It takes time to hole the insole at four stitches per inch. It takes time to create a taw (taper) in the lingel (inseaming thread) and bristle it. It takes time and energy...and, just as importantly, measured strength...to tighten a stitch, esp. when working with, and against, a really good handwax. Skip, dismiss, or go light on any of these aspects and things get dicey right away.

And the one thing you can say for certain about the work in the photos is that, even with all the other problems, the stitches were not tightened sufficiently, period.

That's why GY machines were invented--to take the skill and labour and time and uncertainty...and esp. the uncertainty that human beings bring...out of the equation.

--
Edited by DWFII - 10/6/15 at 8:37am
post #874 of 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

The same as for grinning in a GY shoe--the inseam is not tight, dirt and water gets into the interior and wreaks havoc.

For any inseam to be optimal, the welt, upper and insole must function as a unit. And this means that the materials and the techniques must be the best that can be brought to bear. The inseam...and, by extension, the shoe...is only as strong as its weakest link.

In this particular context, it is hard to know what went wrong but some things are quite obvious: I am always suspicious of white inseaming threads, esp. after reading HMSFM. White inseaming thread can (not always) indicate a paraffin based handwax...which will not lock the threads tightly. But a good rosin based handwax is, of course, much harder to make and use.

Also, the standard for inseaming stitches is at least three stitches to the inch and some makers like four or even five to the inch. The stitches in the photos are not much closer than two to the inch and in some places even a little further apart. But inseaming at 2spi takes less than half the time as inseaming at 4spi. The moral of the story is an old one--speed kills.

Finally, as critical as it is...always, always, always...inseaming is hard. It is a skill. It takes time to do it correctly.

It takes time to make up a handwax that will grip both the opposing thread and the leather of the insole. It takes insight and knowledge to choose an insole of sufficient substance and temper to hold the stitches. It takes time to hole the insole at four stitches per inch. It takes time to create a taw (taper) in the lingel (inseaming thread) and bristle it. It takes time and energy...and, just as importantly, measured strength...to tighten a stitch, esp. when working with, and against, a really good handwax. Skip, dismiss, or go light on any of these aspects and things get dicey right away.

And the one thing you can say for certain about this work is that, even with all the other problems, the stitches were not tightened sufficiently, period.

That's why GY machines were invented--to take the skill and labour and time and uncertainty...and esp. the uncertainty that human beings bring...out of the equation.

--

Even in hand welting is not a guarantee in quality as inferior materials such as white threads and shortcuts in labor time sewing stitches per inch is practiced.
Edited by vmss - 10/6/15 at 8:40am
post #875 of 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmss View Post


What are the consequences for grining in handwelted shoes?

Since the first day, my friend could  feel how the shoe was splitting while walking.

post #876 of 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapasman View Post

Since the first day, my friend could  feel how the shoe was splitting while walking.

Is that shoe from vass?
post #877 of 1515
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmss View Post

Even in hand welting is not a guarantee in quality as inferior materials such as white threads and shortcuts in labor time sewing stitches per inch is practiced.

Just one small caveat...white thread is, itself, not the culprit. Inseaming thread is usually white or cream.

It's the wax. Most hand wax is black or at best, a deep bronze.

That said, handwax can be made to be white, even using pine rosin. In days of yore hand wax was made according to a summer and a winter recipe. Summer wax was often white(ish).

But it's just not often done like that anymore...at least here in the US...usually pitch is an integral component and pitch is black.
post #878 of 1515

Carmina shoe maker.

 

 

 

The hard plastic shank is huge (inside of it there is a small and thin sheet of metal)

 

 

Section view of the forefront.

 

 

Section view of the heel

post #879 of 1515
That is one serious piece of plastic.

What model is that?
post #880 of 1515

Are mental shanks normally covered with plastic? 

post #881 of 1515

No idea I took the pic today in the shop.  I never cut my shoes.:happy:

post #882 of 1515
That shank is huge... Thick too.

Insole looks thin compare to the shank and heel gel pad thickness
post #883 of 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmss View Post

Are mental shanks normally covered with plastic? 

Not necessarily.
post #884 of 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

That shank is huge... Thick too.

Insole looks thin compare to the shank and heel gel pad thickness

To be fair, I do not know if all models are made the same way, but it seems so.

post #885 of 1515
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmss View Post

Are mental shanks normally covered with plastic? 

No, but it's cheaper.

Ideally shanks are spring steel and have some substance to them.

Surround the shank in plastic and it can virtually be soft tin. Just to be clear...the plastic allows the makers (of shanks and shoes) to use thinner metal ...which is cheaper than a good solid spring steel shank. In fact, many plastic shanks like that don't even bother to pretend that they have metal in them anymore.

edited because a member PM'd me asking for clarification
Edited by DWFII - 10/22/15 at 4:30pm
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