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shoe construction...behind the veil - Page 3

post #31 of 137
excellent post DWFII.

I also didn't know that original goodyear welting did not use the canvas rib.
It was always my understanding that there was no hand welting outside of bespoke. Good to know some Eastern European makers may use this in RTW pricing level.

To be honest this is why i personally have never had any qualms about a fashion forward italian 100% cement job (no stitching at all). In my experiance the few goodyear I have had deteriorated faster at the gemming than the upper would seperate from the leather outsole in a total cement shoe (because my feet perspire alot).

In fact i like the cement shoes over goodyear because it is easier for my to completely remove the insole (which is usually cardboard, Texon ect) and replace with a quality thick all leather insole which i leave floating ( I cut this from a leather outsole I get at local cobbler).

I have some cemented shoes which are over 10 years and going strong. Obviously I much prefer a hand welted shoe- but typical goodyear does nothing for me.

Lastly one of your points was regarding solid wood vs particle wood/board. Unfortunately virtually 100% of RTU (ready to use or made to measure) furniture even in high end uses composite boards and finished with thin wood veneers. The argument: more stable yada yada... Even now most structural floor elements of houses use flake boards. These perform very poorly in fire or flood circumstance - but nobody cares anymore. Sign of the times!
post #32 of 137
Can anybody comment on the use of wooden nails being used instead of stitching a shoe, and what is that proces even called?

There are some pictures in an article here:

http://stiljournalen.blogspot.com/2011/08/handlavede-sko-efter-mal-i-slagelse.html

Sorry, it's in danish, and the article isn't in the english version of the blog, but you can see the wooden nails that are used. The article mentions that the cobbler's use of nails is faster and therefore cheaper, about 900$, so I guess it's inferior to properly welted shoes, but how much so? I should also mention that the cobbler can goodyear welt the shoes, but then the cost for a pair of shoes would be about 1400-1600$, which is a little steep for me.
Edited by SHS - 4/22/12 at 4:50am
post #33 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHS View Post

Can anybody comment on the use of wooden nails being used instead of stitching a shoe, and what is that proces even called?
There are some pictures in an article here:
http://stiljournalen.blogspot.com/2011/08/handlavede-sko-efter-mal-i-slagelse.html
Sorry, It's in danish, and the article isn't in the english version of the blog, but you can see the wooden nails that are used. The article mentions that the cobbler's use of nails is faster and therefore cheaper, about 900$, so I guess it's inferior to properly welted shoes, but how much so? I should also mention that the cobbler can goodyear welt the shoes, but then the cost for a pair of shoes would be about 1400-1600$, which is a little steep for me.

Calling DW......
post #34 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHS View Post

Can anybody comment on the use of wooden nails being used instead of stitching a shoe, and what is that proces even called?
There are some pictures in an article here:
http://stiljournalen.blogspot.com/2011/08/handlavede-sko-efter-mal-i-slagelse.html
Sorry, It's in danish, and the article isn't in the english version of the blog, but you can see the wooden nails that are used. The article mentions that the cobbler's use of nails is faster and therefore cheaper, about 900$, so I guess it's inferior to properly welted shoes, but how much so? I should also mention that the cobbler can goodyear welt the shoes, but then the cost for a pair of shoes would be about 1400-1600$, which is a little steep for me.

It's known as a pegged sole, and is fairly common in western boots. I think DWFII has posted about them before, perhaps try a search?
post #35 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHS View Post

Can anybody comment on the use of wooden nails being used instead of stitching a shoe, and what is that proces even called?
There are some pictures in an article here:
http://stiljournalen.blogspot.com/2011/08/handlavede-sko-efter-mal-i-slagelse.html
Sorry, It's in danish, and the article isn't in the english version of the blog, but you can see the wooden nails that are used. The article mentions that the cobbler's use of nails is faster and therefore cheaper, about 900$, so I guess it's inferior to properly welted shoes, but how much so? I should also mention that the cobbler can goodyear welt the shoes, but then the cost for a pair of shoes would be about 1400-1600$, which is a little steep for me.

My St. Crispin's have wood pegged waists. It has the effect of stiffening that area and makes for a very comfortable shoe IMHO.
post #36 of 137
Thread Starter 
The long and the short of it...

Pegged sole construction...makes the shoe stiffer than welted. Depending on environmental conditions probably marginally better than Goodyear but far behind hand-welted. May wear a little longer than welted initially because the pegs are harder than leather but ultimately destructive of the insole and somewhat prone to moisture being wicked into the interior of the shoe.
post #37 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

I want to see the consumer getting something that has a real value and not just a perceived glamour associated with a "famous" name. I'd like to think that I can bring a little clarity and rationality and even understanding to the manner in which we think about not just shoes but all kinds of products.

"Deluxe: How Luxury Lost It's Luster" in a nutshell.
post #38 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHS View Post

Can anybody comment on the use of wooden nails being used instead of stitching a shoe, and what is that proces even called? Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
There are some pictures in an article here:
http://stiljournalen.blogspot.com/2011/08/handlavede-sko-efter-mal-i-slagelse.html
Sorry, It's in danish, and the article isn't in the english version of the blog, but you can see the wooden nails thn see the wooden nails thmentions that the cobbler's use of nails is faster and therefore cheaper, about 900$, so I guess it's inferior to properly welted shoes, but how much so? I should also mention that the cobbler can goodyear welt the shoes, but then the cost for a pair of shoes would be about 1400-1600$, which is a little steep for me.

it's called wood pegged. it's the go to method among austro-hungarian shoemakers. all of my custom made shoes are done this way. it's rock solid.
post #39 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post

It's known as a pegged sole, and is fairly common in western boots. I think DWFII has posted about them before, perhaps try a search?

Thanks. Now I know what to search for! I have already found another article about him here:

http://www.thelondonlounge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10446

SHS
Edited by SHS - 4/22/12 at 4:30am
post #40 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrybrowne View Post

My St. Crispin's have wood pegged waists. It has the effect of stiffening that area and makes for a very comfortable shoe IMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

The long and the short of it...
Pegged sole construction...makes the shoe stiffer than welted. Depending on environmental conditions probably marginally better than Goodyear but far behind hand-welted. May wear a little longer than welted initially because the pegs are harder than leather but ultimately destructive of the insole and somewhat prone to moisture being wicked into the interior of the shoe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzl View Post

it's called wood pegged. it's the go to method among austro-hungarian shoemakers. all of my custom made shoes are done this way. it's rock solid.

Thank you all, very interesting. The cobbler is originally from Bosnia, so he has taken this centraleuropean tradition with him to Denmark. Sounds like I should have no worries about ordering a pegged pair of shoes in the future.
SHS
post #41 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHS View Post

Thank you all, very interesting. The cobbler is originally from Bosnia, so he has taken this centraleuropean tradition with him to Denmark. Sounds like I should have no worries about ordering a pegged pair of shoes in the future.
SHS

exactly
post #42 of 137
What sort of tree is used for the wooden pegs? It has got to be hard and not break easily I guess.
post #43 of 137
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHS View Post

What sort of tree is used for the wooden pegs? It has got to be hard and not break easily I guess.

Originally it was hard rock Maple...in this country at least. Now, the best peg on the market is Blau Ring--made of lemonwood and comes from Germany.
post #44 of 137
Thank you again for the info DWFII.
post #45 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHS View Post

Can anybody comment on the use of wooden nails being used instead of stitching a shoe, and what is that proces even called?
There are some pictures in an article here:
http://stiljournalen.blogspot.com/2011/08/handlavede-sko-efter-mal-i-slagelse.html
Sorry, it's in danish, and the article isn't in the english version of the blog, but you can see the wooden nails that are used. The article mentions that the cobbler's use of nails is faster and therefore cheaper, about 900$, so I guess it's inferior to properly welted shoes, but how much so? I should also mention that the cobbler can goodyear welt the shoes, but then the cost for a pair of shoes would be about 1400-1600$, which is a little steep for me.

here is the
'industrial method'
used by some makers...

768974.jpg

768972b.jpg

a machine to punch a hole
then put the peg in...

even simpler and faster
than 'gemmed' goodyear
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