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shoe construction...behind the veil - Page 80

post #1186 of 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

You're posturing.

Why don't you read?! It would solve a lot of problems and lessen the dissension here.

Didn't a well respected forum member just (10 hours ago-here) tell you he had shoe made by me? Perhaps he could fill in some of these absolutely niggling and snide questions you're raising.

Apologies (sincere) I don't have the time to read all of this. Can you provide a post#?
Thanks in advance if you are willing.
post #1187 of 1515
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

For the life of me I can't understand why you consider me a troublemaker when I am only questioning some of the things you write. Usually when I stick to my guns and don't distracted (rather bored) when you change the subject you can't prove me wrong. For the most part when we disagree you can't prove your point with real life circumstances as I have.

If I remember correctly there was a part of this discussion that related the price of a RTW high-grade VS a HW bespoke. How much the difference in cost was not that significant. What I was trying to contend was that if you factored in the quality aspect the $1800.00 HW VS an $1800.00 RTW the RTW is a better deal.
Certainly the route I would choose.

[sigh]

Because Nick (he said patiently) you can't objectively make that case. You don't know enough about shoemaking or shoemakers like myself to make that case. It is a bias and an entirely baseless bias...informed entirely by what you want to believe.

Leaving aside for a moment the incontrovertible deficiencies / weaknesses of the materials and techniques that comprise the GYW process, earlier in this thread we saw MWS post a photo of a high end handwelted shoe...one that probably sells in excess of $4000.00.

Here's one of mine in about the same state:

DSCF1563.JPG

and another




Who here can honestly make the case that my work is $2200.00 less quality than the $4000.00 shoe?

Of course that's just the HW work. Here's some examples of my upper work:





Point out for me...with your discerning eye...how the best RTW is so much better as to be the better choice.

I don't do GYW so all I can offer you is the photographic evidence--which you've already dismissed out of hand.
post #1188 of 1515
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

Apologies (sincere) I don't have the time to read all of this. Can you provide a post#?
Thanks in advance if you are willing.

You don't need a post #...there's link provided, you can jump right to it .I do that for those people (apparently many in number) for whom even looking up a post # made in the last 10 hours is too much effort.
post #1189 of 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

[sigh]

Because Nick (he said patiently) you can't objectively make that case. You don't know enough about shoemaking or shoemakers like myself to make that case. It is a bias and an entirely baseless bias...informed entirely by what you want to believe.

Leaving aside for a moment the incontrovertible deficiencies / weaknesses of the materials and techniques that comprise the GYW process, earlier in this thread we saw MWS post a photo of a high end handwelted shoe...one that probably sells in excess of $4000.00.

Here's one of mine in about the same state:

DSCF1563.JPG

and another




Who here can honestly make the case that my work is $2200.00 less quality than the $4000.00 shoe?

Of course that's just the HW work. Here's some examples of my upper work:





Point out for me...with your discerning eye...how the best RTW is so much better as to be the better choice.

I don't do GYW so all I can offer you is the photographic evidence--which you've already dismissed out of hand.

All bs as usual. Let's see the contract you told us about (I'm gettin bored).
post #1190 of 1515
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

All bs as usual. Let's see the contract you told us about (I'm gettin bored).

Ah!! Now I understand what your problem is--ADD.

(tsk...even with pretty pictures)

My condolences...
post #1191 of 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Ah!! Now I understand what your problem is--ADD.

(tsk...even with pretty pictures)

My condolences...

Oh....Now I understand aside from being a shoemaker you are a qualified psychologist.
Show us your degree.
Show us a shoe contract that you claim you have for each client. Just one.
I've asked this sort of Q many times. You NEVER stepped up to the plate because you can't.
I'm done with the notion that you can get a quality made HW shoe for $1800.00 than comparing it to a RTW for the same price.

Won't happen.....
post #1192 of 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post
That being the case, I'll order a pair from him. Willing to wait. At his price. I'll post as we go along. Hopefully we can fish together.
$1800.00 for a bespoke pair that fits me. Do I keep the last? Airfare and hotel are expenses that I won't pay. If Sf is willing to absorb those charges please bring a witness.
All the rest is bullshit.

 

What exactly is "bullshit"?  (You were replying to one of my posts.)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

I said in the U.S.
I'm starting to think that leading people to believe that you can have a bespoke HW shoe made here in the U.S. (let alone) N.Y.C. for $1800.00 is no different than saying you can buy a RTW shoe for $50.00. If that's the case what happened to the quality to $ ratio that fueled this discussion?

The several shops that I and others posted didn't convince you?

 

Btw, regarding  quality, Dieworkwear, a member here with one of the most respected menswear blogs, got to examine my second pair of boots from DW and he said they were nicest shoes he'd ever seen.  He owns several pairs of EGs and other high end rtw shoes and is familar with some English bespoke. 

 

In case you (or anyone else interested) missed it, I started a thread years ago documenting the purchase and use of both pairs of boots and DW has kindly added several pics and explanations of their making.  It's here.

post #1193 of 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by emptym View Post

What exactly is "bullshit"?  (You were replying to one of my posts.)

The several shops that I and others posted didn't convince you?

Btw, regarding  quality, Dieworkwear, a member here with one of the most respected menswear blogs, got to examine my second pair of boots from DW and he said they were nicest shoes he'd ever seen.  He owns several pairs of EGs and other high end rtw shoes and is familar with some English bespoke. 

In case you (or anyone else interested) missed it, I started a thread years ago documenting the purchase and use of both pairs of boots and DW has kindly added several pics and explanations of their making.  It's here.

Apologies that I missed it. What shops/price for hw bespoke, todays pricing? If I see them I'll be convinced.
post #1194 of 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by emptym View Post

What exactly is "bullshit"?  (You were replying to one of my posts.)

The several shops that I and others posted didn't convince you?

Btw, regarding  quality, Dieworkwear, a member here with one of the most respected menswear blogs, got to examine my second pair of boots from DW and he said they were nicest shoes he'd ever seen.  He owns several pairs of EGs and other high end rtw shoes and is familar with some English bespoke. 

In case you (or anyone else interested) missed it, I started a thread years ago documenting the purchase and use of both pairs of boots and DW has kindly added several pics and explanations of their making.  It's here.

With DWFII's logic, DWW isn't a shoemaker and doesn't get his fingernails dirty so his opinions is worthless and his understanding Jon Snow.
post #1195 of 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

With DWFII's logic, DWW isn't a shoemaker and doesn't get his fingernails dirty so his opinions is worthless and his understanding Jon Snow.

I wouldn't say that. Far from it....
He know's a lot about making shoes. Much about the materials....
post #1196 of 1515
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

With DWFII's logic, DWW isn't a shoemaker and doesn't get his fingernails dirty so his opinions is worthless and his understanding Jon Snow.


Not true.
post #1197 of 1515
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

I wouldn't say that. Far from it....
He know's a lot about making shoes. Much about the materials....

There's a difference between knowing about something and knowing it.
post #1198 of 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

There's a difference between knowing about something and knowing it.

So what??? The plural of anecdote is not data.
post #1199 of 1515

Another post in which I ask questions, having received so many helpful answers previously.

 

#1

 

Imagine one is getting some boots made for use in the great outdoors.  Imagine one is going to get them made out of a thick, good-quality, full-grain oil-tanned leather.

 

Then imagine you get to choose if you want the smooth side out or the rough side out.  

 

Other than aesthetics, why would one choose one side out versus the other?  Now, I've heard that rough out is better with scratches, but I'm not sure if that is just about looks or what?  Would  smooth-out be better for wet conditions, because the smooth side will deflect water a little better?  Does rough out somehow prevent leather from drying out as quickly in very hot and dry situations?  (Of course, I am assuming one would oil/condition the boots appropriately, either way.)  Would there be a difference in breathability?  Would the presence of a lining change one's decision?

 

Are there greater or lesser challenges depending on which side out one turns the leather when making a rugged boot?

 

#2

 

Multiple bookmakers in the Pacific Northwest talk about hand welting their boots.  Is this hand welting done in the same way as one might see in a HW shoe by one of the few high-end RTW makers in Europe that use HW?

 

#3

 

How much will a leather-soled shoe or boot shrink length-wise with wear?  Am I right that a boot that has a heavy rubber outsole beneath the leather sole would probably not shrink length-wise as much?

 

#4

 

I brought some Blake-stitched Italian men's blutchers into a local cobbler to be "resoled."  I was told it would cost $85 and was charged upfront.  I got the shoes back with a partial leather sole stitched on top of the old sole, but no reaching all the way back to the sole, definitely thickening the look and feel of the sole.  New top lifts, if I am right about the terminology, were also put on.  The shoes are functional and the fit hasn't changed, but they don't look the same, and I don't feel that is what one would call a "resole."  Am I right that this is not what one would expect when getting shoes "resoled" by a cobbler, but that it is a lesser service, which should be described as such?

post #1200 of 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

There's a difference between knowing about something and knowing it.

As usual you proved nothing.
Thanks for the pics. To be honest they are pretty ugly looking things. I don't know of anyone that would wear them. But that's cosmetics. So it be, to each their own.
A $1800.00 HW shoe made with quality?
Show us one of your contracts deleting all personal info.
If you can't you are full of shit.
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