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post #31 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroStyles View Post
Really? I still feel that breezes in really hot places are cooling.

I think he means 37 Celsius, which is normal body temperature
post #32 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by holymadness View Post
When the temperature of the air is >37°, however, it ceases to cool the body.

At that temp, it ceases to cool the body through convection, because you can't cool anything below the ambient temp that way, and the body temp is usually around 37°. However, by the mechanism you propose, which only works if you are actually sweating, btw, there's no reason why high ambient temp would cause you to stop losing heat through evaporation of sweat.

Change in free energy (∆G) = ∆H - T∆S. If free energy decreases due to a process, that process will spontaneously occur. H is heat, S is entropy. When sweat evaporates it requires energy to do so (to overcome intermolecular forces); however, this energy is offset by the second term in the equation, which is large due to the increase in entropy (gas vs liquid). As temperature increases the entropic contribution becomes more significant and gasses are favored. ∆G changes, but ∆H does not. The process still requires heat, which has to come from somewhere.

If you are arguing that the requisite heat comes from the atmosphere rather than from the water droplet itself, my answer is that it still doesn't matter, because the change in heat will still have a cooling effect, directly or indirectly, versus what you would feel without sweat.
post #33 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComboOrgan View Post
I think he means 37 Celsius, which is normal body temperature

I know, but I do recall breezes in Delhi (45 C) still being refreshing, but maybe I'm imagining things.
post #34 of 244
I would assume that all fields of science (natural, cognitive, social, etc.,) are considered?
post #35 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrG View Post
Even on a cold day, there is moisture on your skin, albeit far less than on a hot one.

Wind accelerates evaporation, and evaporation cools the body. Is there a convection component to wind chill? Yes. However, that is not the main component of the cooling effect of wind, and it doesn't explain why wind makes you feel cooler in warm temperatures. Metro specifically asked why wind makes us feel cooler, and he noted that this phenomenon occurs both in cold and warmth. The cooling effect of warm wind cannot be explained by convection, as it's simply more warm air being blown against the body. Indeed, convection can actually make you feel warmer, as is the case with a convection heater.

So yes, cold wind will make you feel colder through convection, but that is not the main process at work when it comes to feeling cooler as a result of moving air. The main process is evaporation. Convection only matters when the air that is moving is cool; evaporation makes you feel cooler over a much broader spectrum of temperatures.

From How Stuff Works' article on how fans work (note the relationship between convection and evaporation on a cold day):



Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety





I don't think it's exactly what you were saying. High humidity makes it harder for sweat to evaporate because it can't exchange moisture as easily with the air.

From the same Canadian write-up:

The body is constantly burning energy and adding heat to the ambient air, in hot and cold temperatures, raising the temperature of the air immediately surrounding it. This makes it feel warmer than the air, hot or cold. The wind just blows this away.

I will agree that as temperatures get exceptionally high, the convective effect is less pronounced than the heat loss through evaporation of sweat.

None of your linked articles support the conclusion (nor make any attempt to support) that evaporative cooling is generally the predominant mechanism for wind-chill.
post #36 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by CunningSmeagol View Post
At that temp, it ceases to cool the body through convection, because you can't cool anything below the ambient temp that way, and the body temp is usually around 37°. However, by the mechanism you propose, which only works if you are actually sweating, btw, there's no reason why high ambient temp would cause you to stop losing heat through evaporation of sweat.

Change in free energy (∆G) = ∆H - T∆S. If free energy decreases due to a process, that process will spontaneously occur. H is heat, S is entropy. When sweat evaporates it requires energy to do so (to overcome intermolecular forces); however, this energy is offset by the second term in the equation, which is large due to the increase in entropy (gas vs liquid). As temperature increases the entropic contribution becomes more significant and gasses are favored. ∆G changes, but ∆H does not. The process still requires heat, which has to come from somewhere.

If you are arguing that the requisite heat comes from the atmosphere rather than from the water droplet itself, my answer is that it still doesn't matter, because the change in heat will still have a cooling effect, directly or indirectly, versus what you would feel without sweat.

Yeah, I don't really have a dog in this fight. I answered without using Google based on my fuzzy memory of high school science class, as per the rules.
post #37 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroStyles View Post
I know, but I do recall breezes in Delhi (45 C) still being refreshing, but maybe I'm imagining things.

Were you sweating?
post #38 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by holymadness View Post
Yeah, I don't really have a dog in this fight. I answered without using Google based on my fuzzy memory of high school science class, as per the rules.
I feel like I have a dog in this fight and that my entire intellectual worth is staked on it. I have no idea why. edit: k, there's the next question. Why does the internet bring out such visceral feelings for things we don't really care about?
post #39 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by merkur View Post
Can anyone tell me how the Apollo 11 astronauts managed to keep the space shuttle flying in space and take off from the moon if there is no atmosphere on the moon and presumably no oxygen in space or on the moon for rocket fuel combustion?

The Apollo 11 astronauts didn't have to worry about flying the space shuttle at all; it was not in development when their moon landing took place.

As has been said, rocket engines contain propellant and oxidizer. No external oxidizer is needed for propulsion. Spacecraft in flight also use smaller control thrusters to orient the ship or satellite.
post #40 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by CunningSmeagol View Post
Change in free energy (∆G) = ∆H - T∆S. If free energy decreases due to a process, that process will spontaneously occur. H is heat, S is entropy. When sweat evaporates it requires energy to do so (to overcome intermolecular forces); however, this energy is offset by the second term in the equation, which is large due to the increase in entropy (gas vs liquid). As temperature increases the entropic contribution becomes more significant and gasses are favored. ∆G changes, but ∆H does not. The process still requires heat, which has to come from somewhere.

If you are arguing that the requisite heat comes from the atmosphere rather than from the water droplet itself, my answer is that it still doesn't matter, because the change in heat will still have a cooling effect, directly or indirectly, versus what you would feel without sweat.

So a person running in Denver will cool off from sweat more than in Louisiana (assuming all else is equal besides atmospheric pressure)?

As a side question, how is entropy usually calculated?
post #41 of 244
how did jesus create the dinosaurs?
post #42 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
how did jesus create the dinosaurs?

From the rib of Raptor Jesus.
post #43 of 244
Fuckin' magnets, how do they work?
post #44 of 244
Can someone explain this animation of the history of the WAYWRN thread in MC?

Thanks.



It's just a theory, right?


- B
post #45 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by why View Post
So a person running in Denver will cool off from sweat more than in Louisiana (assuming all else is equal besides atmospheric pressure)?

As a side question, how is entropy usually calculated?

i think it would depends upon your approach, the easiest approach to it that i remember is thorugh gibbs. Delta G=Delta H-TDeltaS, just isolate Dealt S and you have at at least one way to calculate entropy.
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