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Do you know martial art? What kind? What Level? - Page 13

post #181 of 193
I don't know what Yin Fu is, but the videos I've seen of Baguazhang are nothing short of beautiful. I wish I could learn it, and I don't even care about fighting.
post #182 of 193
Anyone know of any good real life fighting in the Sacramento area? I used to do TKD and would win sparring trophies when I was 11 but I'd get my ass kicked on the street.
post #183 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by javyn
I don't know what Yin Fu is, but the videos I've seen of Baguazhang are nothing short of beautiful. I wish I could learn it, and I don't even care about fighting.

I think Bagua is a beautiful martial art. They offered it at the Kung Fu studio I trained at, but required that you take both Wushu and Tai Chi for four to five years, because the fundamental techniques of Bagua are apparently so difficult to do *correctly* that they don't want to waste their time trying to train newbies.
post #184 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiecollector
Anyone know of any good real life fighting in the Sacramento area? I used to do TKD and would win sparring trophies when I was 11 but I'd get my ass kicked on the street.
go find a boxing gym on the wrong side of town Speaking of which, I am boxing again. Loving it. Taking private lessons with one of the trainers of the Vietnam national team - he has been boxing 37 years and was part of the national team himself for like 10 yrs, fought in all the regional tournaments etc. The price - hehehehe - cos it is private training, I have to pay the rent on the room in the sports center for him - 200000 per month ($12) and then I have to pay the trainer - 100000 vnd ($6) So, for 18 bucks a month, I get 3x a week private lessons with one of the nation's finest. Happy with that.
post #185 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eason
I was though that this thread would be full of bullshit, but at least not all of it, by your post.

thanks eason. i haven't been on this forum in a long time, just stopped in to take a look. interesting to see that this thread is still active. also, not surprised that people are still clueless.

which sbg do you train at?
post #186 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Deacon
Warning: If long laborious, semi-vain, admittedly underinformed posts annoy you, please skip this one. Otherwise, read it and respond if you like. The dialogue can be helpful. I'm always open to receiving constructive feedback.

I've studied chinese martial arts for the past 18 years. A chinese art I sampled that no one's mentioned is shuai chiao which is mongolian wrestling and is combat focused. It includes neck breaking techniques and other cripplers.

The Grandmaster was Chang Tung Shen and he taught here in the US(Ohio) toward the end of his life and was still strong as a bull, crisp and proficient til the end, rep was that he was undefeated in 100's of challenge matches against all comers and styles in China. He was into studying Chinese arts from the renowned masters and distilling what he felt worked martially and discarding flowery form.

As a result he formed Hsing-Jin,the essence of Hsing i, and Tai Chi Jin, the essence of tai chi, and Bagua Jin etc. This is in a Black Belt magazine from the eighties.He was extremely brutal except in casual settings and would introduce himself at seminars by dinging your balls or plum flower fisting the acu point above your lip drawing a drop of blood, true. I studied various shaolin arts like long fist and white crane, Shaolin animals but didn't need to be proficient to outspar upper level students because of athleticism.

Later l learned numerous chinese weapons, chin na, lohan training exercises, qigongs, Bagua chang or 8 diagram palm and Hsing i and tai chi but for forms purposes from someone who was not invested in teaching martially due to liability fears. This got me interested enough to research more and finally track down masters who wanted to teach MARTIAL and who learned directly from then living Grandmasters in given styles.

I learned some cheng bagua which is a grappling, joint lock oriented bagua but have happily ended up studying Yin Fu Bagua with He Jinbao from Beijing. In the 1880's Yin Fu was the senior most student of the art's founder Dong Hai Chuan and together they formed a protection company to protect rich people during trips, they also were the men who trained the Emperor's palace guard. Bagua protected the Emperor.

Yin Fu Bagua is not pretty, it is not flowing and flowery, it breaks bones, mangles and cripples it's opponent in a similar fashion as kajukempo. We use elbows, fists, backfist(wrist) forearms, palms, backs, butts, knees, heads, ankles, heels, shins, the whole body is trained to be a weapon. It is very clearly evident in the forms and drills we do. Everything is combat related, not a flower or non fighting move to be found.

From my earlier martial experiences, I understand how earlier posters who've seen other Bagua schools and non martial tai chi and hsingi schools can lump us all in one soft bag but that is a narrow and short sighted/ underinformed? position.

Generally an art and students proficiency depends on the schools focus and the work put in by the students. I challenge anyone to sample NY's hardnosed, well trained, Bagua expert Novell Bell and say he can't fight or He Jinbao. Jinbao accepts challenge matches in Beijing at his home. And when a foreigner wants to sample China's best fighter, that fighter is pointed towards Jinbao's door.

Not much ink for him but when the rubber hits the road, all other Chinese Beijing fighters take a step back for this guy. Special forces guys love sparring against him when he's here because they can go all out and know that they can't hurt him and he'll only tweak and bounce them. So many of my fellow Yin Style Bagua brothers used to teach Kenpo and TKD and are pissed that they wasted so much time because YSB has an answer for all that stuff.

Some of us have mixed martial arts experience and we like that stuff too and do not denigrate it because it's also for real and has effective ground stuff. We go to see the matches and there is a school down the block from us. Conversly,the head of the school drops by often and sees the merits of our approach.

If your style works against what you'll likely face, it's fine. I've seen a(then 20+ age) wrestler face off against an accomplished (then 20+) tai chi player and short of dropping chest to mat the wrestler could not drop lower than or gain any advantage over the tai chi player who happened to have highly developed rooting ability, speed, balance, strength,technique and knowledge of other styles.

you are living in a fantasy world.
post #187 of 193
Mizanation, I respect and welcome your informed opinion to the extent that it is informed and appreciate your experience. You're calling it as you see it and that's what America is about.

I suggest you take the short trip to pay a visit to South Hadley/Amherst Massachusetts this Fall (during two week period in Sept/Oct particularly the weekends, I'll be sure to let you know when the dates are firmed up) to see for yourself what's real and what isn't. You can sit in for free and observe that which you infer/state(?) is fantastical and ineffective in the real world.

You can join us for lunch with the guy and you can pick his brain and might even have a chance to test what you've been advocating. If you can teach him something I'm sure he'd appreciate the lesson. He is very outgoing and welcoming. The quote I remember best from one of his top students regarding people who challenge him is "They all fall".

Thanks for coming back.
post #188 of 193
i'm sure you're teacher appreciates that you are setting up challenge matches on his behalf with people you don't even know. if i were him, i'd be pissed off! i'd make you do bagua circle exercises till you dug yourself to china, then i'd make you go fetch me some good po-lay tea.

my point is not that your art is effective or not.

all i'm saying is, you don't need to believe in invincible masters, man. who cares if your master is undefeated or can take on all challengers or can defeat teams of chinese special forces ninjas blindfolded. same thing goes for bjj guys saying rickson is undefeated in over 300 street fights. gimme a break. it's all nonsense, whether its blind religious belief in kung-fu, bjj, or even mma.

what about your own personal performance? how have you tested yourself? improved yourself? that's more relevant, no?
post #189 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizanation
thanks eason. i haven't been on this forum in a long time, just stopped in to take a look. interesting to see that this thread is still active. also, not surprised that people are still clueless. which sbg do you train at?
SBG beaverton, Oregon. Though recently it's been renamed to IMPACT Jiujitsu...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizanation
what about your own personal performance? how have you tested yourself? improved yourself? that's more relevant, no?
Bam.
post #190 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eason
SBG beaverton, Oregon. Though recently it's been renamed to IMPACT Jiujitsu...

cool, man. anytime you're in new york, come by my gym. we're sbg's new york branch. i'll look you guys up whenever if i'm ever in the beaverton area for some reason.
post #191 of 193
haha yeah, next time I'm in NYC!
post #192 of 193
btw, i haven't trained with tom oberhue but i've heard he's really great. you have an awesome teacher. keep training, i'll see you on the mats.
post #193 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizanation
btw, i haven't trained with tom oberhue but i've heard he's really great. you have an awesome teacher. keep training, i'll see you on the mats.

haha, Tom Oberhue is a brilliant beacon of positive energy. It can get a little sickening at 5 am. He's an excellent teacher and funny guy nonetheless.
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