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Should a restaurant be able to turn away clients based on age? - Page 3

post #31 of 123
7/11/10 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota rube View Post
I'm surprised to be in the midst of such a large group of adults who apparently were never children.
I was, and my parents took my siblings and I to restaurants at an early age and we were expected to behave properly. They would not, however take us out to a quiet, sophisticated spot on a Saturday night...they would leave us with a babysitter.
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post #32 of 123
7/11/10 at 12:14pm
Perhaps it is more of an issue of parents not teaching their children to act appropriately at restaurants, which is not all that surprising, seeing that so many people in their thirties and forties have atrocious manners and the belief that the world revolves around them. Certainly, several people in this thread display that. I don't remember many children disturbing my meals, and I know that I often ate out with my parents when I was young, even though there was always somebody at home to take care of me. I guess they wanted me around (the horror!!!) I do remember some very well behaved children at great restaurants, and seeing them enjoy themselves making me smile. One in particular was at Le Cinq, where two little girls seemed to be having the time of their lives with their parents. The girls had to be six or seven. Very well behaved, engaged and interested in the experience and their families. Nice, and what I remember from childhood. My wife and I smiled a lot about it.
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post #33 of 123
7/11/10 at 12:22pm
I think the issue is toddlers and pre-school aged kids. Even the best-behaved and well-mannered ones can have a meltdown. It comes down to there are certain places where you should just not bring small children. I hate people who bring babies and toddlers to movie theaters with a passion-but I am going to be a hell of a lot more understanding about the parent who brings the kid to Toy Story 3 than one who brings a 2 year-old to The A-Team.
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post #34 of 123
7/11/10 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iammatt View Post
Perhaps it is more of an issue of parents not teaching their children to act appropriately at restaurants, which is not all that surprising, seeing that so many people in their thirties and forties have atrocious manners and the belief that the world revolves around them. Certainly, several people in this thread display that.

I don't remember many children disturbing my meals, and I know that I often ate out with my parents when I was young, even though there was always somebody at home to take care of me. I guess they wanted me around (the horror!!!) I do remember some very well behaved children at great restaurants, and seeing them enjoy themselves making me smile. One in particular was at Le Cinq, where two little girls seemed to be having the time of their lives with their parents. The girls had to be six or seven. Very well behaved, engaged and interested in the experience and their families. Nice, and what I remember from childhood. My wife and I smiled a lot about it.

Our kids are hardly angels at home but going out seems to bring out their best. We figure it is good for them to learn early that eating out is perfectly natural and good behaviour in public is expected. We also find that restaurants are generally receptive to them - our best and most fun experience was a tasting menu over two and half hours and the place (in hawaii) did a special menu for them matching us course for course. By the end they were asleep in their chairs with chocolate all around their mouths...
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post #35 of 123
7/11/10 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tattersall View Post
Our kids are hardly angels at home but going out seems to bring out their best. We figure it is good for them to learn early that eating out is perfectly natural and good behaviour in public is expected. We also find that restaurants are generally receptive to them - our best and most fun experience was a tasting menu over two and half hours and the place (in hawaii) did a special menu for them matching us course for course. By the end they were asleep in their chairs with chocolate all around their mouths...
I think this is great. I think the more things people see as normal, and as things that they have done and know how to do, the better off they are in the long run.
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post #36 of 123
7/11/10 at 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tattersall View Post
Our kids are hardly angels at home but going out seems to bring out their best. We figure it is good for them to learn early that eating out is perfectly natural and good behaviour in public is expected. We also find that restaurants are generally receptive to them - our best and most fun experience was a tasting menu over two and half hours and the place (in hawaii) did a special menu for them matching us course for course. By the end they were asleep in their chairs with chocolate all around their mouths...

this sounds ideal.

Unfortunately, I also recall two kids (had to be 4 to 6 years old each) making the biggest fuss at a pizzeria in DC once. It was so awful that the restaurant congregation clapped right as the door closed on their way out after dinner. At no point did the wait staff bother to ask the parents to control their children, nor did the parents make any effort along the way. Ever since that miserable experience, I have been jaded.
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post #37 of 123
7/11/10 at 12:34pm
you know what should turn kids away? coffee shops. there is something wrong with letting 5,6,7 year olds suck on a frapuccino or a cafe mocha.
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post #38 of 123
7/11/10 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota rube View Post
I'm surprised to be in the midst of such a large group of adults who apparently were never children.

Trust me, if my parents neglected to take me to some fancy joint when I was 2 years old, I wouldn't hold it against them. They put up with me for 17 years before shipping me off to college.
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post #39 of 123
7/11/10 at 12:35pm
I've written about taking my two young nephews to Charlie Trotters and Alinea... clearly I'm on board with the idea of making formal dining and formal settings a normal one for kids. However, you should only do that ONCE you know that they will be able to handle it. This is America, so obviously every parent, including all the ones here think that their kid, besides being Einstein, is a model of good behavior. I've worked in restaurants and I can tell you that most kids are simply not prepared to sit for a 3-4 hour service in a very formal setting. There certainly are kids who can do it, but you should probably train them at some less serious places first, then work your way up to fine dining. My little nephews are excellent now and they'll try anything, and are very polite and engaged. At alinea they ate and enjoyed every single course except for the white asparagus dish, it was amazing. Chef absolutely loved them. But, they got their training at far less formal establishments with their parents.
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post #40 of 123
7/11/10 at 12:40pm
My parents brought me to high-end places as a child, but not my brother or sister, because I behaved and they didn't. People always fawned over me because I was so cute in my little suit and was very well mannered.

I don't think young kids should be excluded from nice restaurants, but babies probably should be. There's nothing wrong with a well-mannered kid being there though. If you want to let your kids run wild and "be kids," go to The Keg or the Olive Garden where other patrons expect annoying disturbances.
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post #41 of 123
7/11/10 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iammatt View Post
I think this is great. I think the more things people see as normal, and as things that they have done and know how to do, the better off they are in the long run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gomestar View Post
this sounds ideal.

Unfortunately, I also recall two kids (had to be 4 to 6 years old each) making the biggest fuss at a pizzeria in DC once. It was so awful that the restaurant congregation clapped right as the door closed on their way out after dinner. At no point did the wait staff bother to ask the parents to control their children, nor did the parents make any effort along the way. Ever since that miserable experience, I have been jaded.

The kids know that if things melt down, we're out. It's not a threat (which never works anyway) but just letting them know that there are adults there who want a nice quiet time and that they should respect that.

During the week, dinners are hardly elegant at home but on the weekends, and at restaurants, we try and teach them that dinner is a time for good behaviour.
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post #42 of 123
7/11/10 at 12:50pm
The child in question was 3 months old, not 3 or 5 years old. I don't have a problem with well behaved children in a restaurant, but at 3 months old you have a visceral being that can't even control when it shits let alone be reasoned with. And of course parents quickly develop the ability to be the last people to smell a dirty diaper.
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post #43 of 123
7/11/10 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnacious View Post
The child in question was 3 months old, not 3 or 5 years old. I don't have a problem with well behaved children in a restaurant, but at 3 months old you have a visceral being that can't even control when it shits let alone be reasoned with. And of course parents quickly develop the ability to be the last people to smell a dirty diaper.

Well said!
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post #44 of 123
7/11/10 at 1:37pm
There are some good points here on both sides of the issue. There are also some people saying idiotic things on both sides of the issue.

IMO, the problem is, rules like this are made for the general and everyone thinks their kid is the particular that the general does not apply to. There is no doubt, well behaved kids do not pose any problems. How does a proprietor or other patrons know this on a predetermined basis though? Once it is determined the child(ren) in question are out of control, what steps can be taken to mitigate the impact on other diners?

Also, as pointed out, this was an infant. Even little baby Jesus cries. Is the position of anyone here that patrons of an upscale wine bar should expect crying infants?
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post #45 of 123
7/11/10 at 3:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
There are some good points here on both sides of the issue. There are also some people saying idiotic things on both sides of the issue.

IMO, the problem is, rules like this are made for the general and everyone thinks their kid is the particular that the general does not apply to. There is no doubt, well behaved kids do not pose any problems. How does a proprietor or other patrons know this on a predetermined basis though? Once it is determined the child(ren) in question are out of control, what steps can be taken to mitigate the impact on other diners?

Also, as pointed out, this was an infant. Even little baby Jesus cries. Is the position of anyone here that patrons of an upscale wine bar should expect crying infants?

Exactly. A 5 or 6 year old you can control. Some 3 year olds can be quite well behaved too. But a fucking baby? What the fuck is wrong with them?
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