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The Ultimate "HARDCORE" Shoe Porn Thread (Bespoke only) - Page 239

post #3571 of 3712
^ impressed by wearing them or looking at pictures of them?
post #3572 of 3712
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

^ impressed by wearing them or looking at pictures of them?

Being a maker myself there's two aspects of that--first, I don't wear anyone's shoes but my own.

And second, as a maker I look at the details, the refinement, the stitching, the outsole treatment,etc.-- all the things that a maker looks at and...with all due respect...few if any consumers are as capable of appreciating.
post #3573 of 3712
Quote:
Originally Posted by daizawaguy View Post

So interesting to see top English and Italian and top Japanese bespoke on the same page....the standards are so different they almost cant be compared. And the irony is the prices might be inverted compared to quality - wonder how long that will last? Possibly travel and fittings won't make this converge, but it must be an eye opener and tear drawer to those paying such a large price for a bespoke pair from the finest UK and European makers...

With the utmost due respect, but the Lobb`s seem like a pair of trial shoes, the Cleverly`s front a sawed off afterthought, and the Ugolini`s stitching was interrupted by a visitor and a quick expresso... seriously though, the differences in attention to leather, balance and detail is so striking its embarrassing

Question, are Japanese makers less? I would be surprised if less than Ugolini, but would be curious to know approximate pricing.
post #3574 of 3712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvwine View Post


Question, are Japanese makers less? I would be surprised if less than Ugolini, but would be curious to know approximate pricing.

The pricing can be seen at their home pages. 
Marquess starts (last i checked) at around 363 000 yen with shoe trees included. Upcharge for boots, old stock freudenberg, and exotics. 
Yohei Fukuda starts at around 370 000 for master scratch (bespoke fitting but patterns already chosen), and 430 000 for full bespoke

post #3575 of 3712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan88 View Post

The pricing can be seen at their home pages. 

Marquess starts (last i checked) at around 363 000 yen with shoe trees included. Upcharge for boots, old stock freudenberg, and exotics. 

Yohei Fukuwda starts at around 370 000 for master scratch (bespoke fitting but patterns already chosen), and 430 000 for full bespoke

The cheapest Japanese pricing you list is slightly more than double Ugolini's pricing for the first pair in a given last and then he is 20% less for subsequent pairs in the same last though with Up charges for boots or shell cordovan or exotics.

Also, Ugolini travels every year to Japan and sells quite a lot there. He does not travel to the U.S that I know of, but Florence is easier to get to than Tokyo from the U.S.
Edited by Luvwine - 7/24/16 at 8:23am
post #3576 of 3712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvwine View Post


The cheapest Japanese pricing you list is slightly more than double Ugolini's pricing for the first pair in a given last and then he is 20% less for subsequent pairs in the same last though with Up charges for boots or shell cordovan or exotics.

Also, Ugolini travels every year to Japan and sells quite a lot there. He does not travel to the U.S that I know of, but Florence is easier to get to than Tokyo from the U.S.

First of all, the two are the most expensive Japanese makers. There are obviously cheaper options too. There are a bunch of Japanese makers trained at Ugolini that charge less, but I personally don't like the Italian styling and hence stick to the British trained ones. 
 

As for where it's easiest to go, I guess that depends on what coast you're at ;)

post #3577 of 3712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan88 View Post

First of all, the two are the most expensive Japanese makers. There are obviously cheaper options too. There are a bunch of Japanese makers trained at Ugolini that charge less, but I personally don't like the Italian styling and hence stick to the British trained ones. 

 
As for where it's easiest to go, I guess that depends on what coast you're at wink.gif

I stand corrected, it is 45 minutes closer by plane from LA to Tokyo than to Rome. Did not realize that.
post #3578 of 3712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvwine View Post


I stand corrected, it is 45 minutes closer by plane from LA to Tokyo than to Rome. Did not realize that.

Wasn't such of a big difference!
I don't think it's so easy to compare the quality of shoes in such different price ranges. It sounds like trying to compare the quality of say Cheaney and Edward Green. I'm sure Ugolini is good value for the money if you like the Italian style :)

post #3579 of 3712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan88 View Post

Wasn't such of a big difference!

I don't think it's so easy to compare the quality of shoes in such different price ranges. It sounds like trying to compare the quality of say Cheaney and Edward Green. I'm sure Ugolini is good value for the money if you like the Italian style smile.gif

I am not knowledgable enough to compare, but I have paid more for shoes I liked less and the fit has been very good after break in. I gather you don't like what you see of the stitching on my new loafers, but what do you think of my last pair from Ugolini? Anything you find sub par?

Pics here:

http://www.pbase.com/luvwine/image/162664673

http://www.pbase.com/luvwine/image/162664674

http://www.pbase.com/luvwine/image/162664675
post #3580 of 3712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvwine View Post


I am not knowledgable enough to compare, but I have paid more for shoes I liked less and the fit has been very good after break in. I gather you don't like what you see of the stitching on my new loafers, but what do you think of my last pair from Ugolini? Anything you find sub par?

Pics here:

http://www.pbase.com/luvwine/image/162664673

http://www.pbase.com/luvwine/image/162664674

http://www.pbase.com/luvwine/image/162664675

I haven't commented on the stitching, but generally I find the stitching on some Ugolinis to not be very neat. I think it looks like a classic Italian shoe, and a nice one at that. The stitching is like most Ugolinis I've seen pictures of. 

post #3581 of 3712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan88 View Post
 

I haven't commented on the stitching, but generally I find the stitching on some Ugolinis to not be very neat. I think it looks like a classic Italian shoe, and a nice one at that. The stitching is like most Ugolinis I've seen pictures of. 


Rats, I am messing up left and right.  It was Daizawaguy who commented negatively on the stitching.  Forgive my error, again.  I find the stitching to be quite acceptable, but that may be due to my igorance/low standards.  In most areas of life, there are points of diminishing return and then of course there are areas of stylistic preference as you point out.  In some shoes, I love English style.  In others, I find it boring.  Similarly, there are Italian shoes that are over the top for me, but others where I like a bit of Italian flair.  I was put off in making the leap from good ready to wear pricing to John Lobb Paris on Madison Avenue ($7,000 a pair when I was there years ago), but found Ugolini much more reasonable and I thus far have not regretted the pairs I have commissioned.

post #3582 of 3712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvwine View Post
 


Rats, I am messing up left and right.  It was Daizawaguy who commented negatively on the stitching.  Forgive my error, again.  I find the stitching to be quite acceptable, but that may be due to my igorance/low standards.  In most areas of life, there are points of diminishing return and then of course there are areas of stylistic preference as you point out.  In some shoes, I love English style.  In others, I find it boring.  Similarly, there are Italian shoes that are over the top for me, but others where I like a bit of Italian flair.  I was put off in making the leap from good ready to wear pricing to John Lobb Paris on Madison Avenue ($7,000 a pair when I was there years ago), but found Ugolini much more reasonable and I thus far have not regretted the pairs I have commissioned.

Np.

I don't think Ugolini makes shoes to a low standard at all. They make great shoes at a very competitive price.
How much one is willing to dish out for a pair of shoes is personal. I believe the service and shoes I receive at Marquess is worth every penny, and a bit on top. The JLP you mention are priced very high, but some might even consider those good value!

post #3583 of 3712
Big question for the consumer is how Japanese makers are able to make their shoes fit vs. European makers.
post #3584 of 3712
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Big question for the consumer is how Japanese makers are able to make their shoes fit vs. European makers.

By offering fitting shoes I think the chance of them being better us rather high as you're able to give feedback.
post #3585 of 3712
My view of the Japanese vs European (owning a couple of Japanese makers and a few European, seen and handled quite a lot of brands from both worlds IRL, and studied a lot of pics from all over) is that yes, several Japanese makers have a very high level of their work, but as others note, there are also many Japanese that don't have the same refinement. Where they have been trained likely has a lot to do with this, and the view of things there, but also the personalities of the makers themselves.

If you take England, where the business is quite different when you look at the big firms, the problem there is that the work can be quite inconsistent, depending on which freelance workers that takes care of the shoes. You can get top notch work, but you can also get some quite sloppy work, both with the same logo. In Italy there's not freelance workers in the same way, so the making is often more consistent, but in many cases on a bit lower level where the attention to details isn't looked after. In France there are some freelancers but here we find the largest in-house workshops in the world, and the standard here is from what I've seen overall really good. But there are French makers who also doesn't do the most refined work.

To sum it up, there's basically really good ones and not so good ones everywhere (surprise...). But if I should do a very rough generalisation I'd say the highest amount of really good shoemaking of the countries mentioned really is to be found in Japan, then France, then England and then Italy (my personal view, no fact).
Edited by j ingevaldsson - 7/25/16 at 3:57am
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