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The Ultimate "HARDCORE" Shoe Porn Thread (Bespoke only) - Page 228

post #3406 of 3684
The fit of the Ugolini's looks perfect. Very nice!
post #3407 of 3684
The leather on the ugolini looks more creased than the boar skin. Thoughts?
post #3408 of 3684
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


You didn't answer the question. I suspect that once again you are making statements you cannot and have not substantiated. You don't know what you're talking about, IOW.

I don't know about Clorox...but I do know about oxalic acid and acetone because I've used both products for over forty years. Oxalic acid is is a wood bleach but it does not work for leather. Oxalic will bleach out iron stains that occur on vegetable tanned leather through careless handling. (a usage that goes back centuries) And the only reason it works is because vegetable tans are almost always wood bark based.

Oxalic acid has no effect on chrome tanned leathers. It has no effect on aniline dyes. It has no effect on water based dyes. It has no effect on finished leathers. It will actually darken (stain) vegetable tanned leathers.

Dye prep will not bleach the leather, either. It's purpose is to open the pores and cut through the greases so that dyes will strike evenly. Acetone will not bleach leather. It will remove finishes and pick ups some loose aniline dyestuffs but it is not a bleach.

Below is an experiment I did:

The first photo is of a series of swatches cut from different shoe leathers. Before.

From L. to R.:
1.Spanish calf, chrome tan, aniline dyed, struck through, little or no top coat. 2. Annonay French calf, aniline dye and top coat, not struck through. 3. Glazed buffalo calf, retan, aniline dye, struck through, top coat and acrylic wax. 4. St. Crispin burnishable baby calf (A.A. Crack), calf, veg tanned dyed crust, struck through, no top coat. 5. St. Crispin burnishable baby calf, veg tanned dyed crust, struck through, no top coat. 6. Burnishable buffalo calf, veg retan, aniline dyed (?), struck through, no top coat.




Second photo, veg calf, similar to, and a reasonable facsimile of, crust. Before
L.-R.:
1, aniline dye. 2. aniline dye. 3. Eco-flo water based dye. 4 Eco-flo water based dye. 5 iron stain.





Third and fourth photos, 48 hours after applying a liberal swath of Oxalic acid:







All the veg tanned leathers darkened some under the influence of the strong acidic wash. None were bleached. None of the dyes were affected. None of the finished leathers were affected.

The iron stain was removed.

It might be noted that oxalic acid can over-acidify a leather and destroy it. I once watched a colleague paint Oxalic on a perfectly beautiful pair of buttercup ostrich boot and within 24 hours the leather had darkened to a reddish tan and was dry to the touch. Despite conditioning they cracked and were turning to dust within three months.

Finally, yes, you can scrub any leather to the point where the colour will come off. But you can do that with pure water too, if you're industrious enough. That said, this is not only destructive to the leather, it is, bottom line, not a bleach.

--

 

Use all those solutions without washing/water isn't exactly going to get rid of the pigments?  Its true that I might etched the top surface of the leather thus the decoloration and might as well use 600 grit + sandpaper.  But who knows. 

post #3409 of 3684
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Use all those solutions without washing/water isn't exactly going to get rid of the pigments?  Its true that I might etched the top surface of the leather thus the decoloration and might as well use 600 grit + sandpaper.  But who knows. 

If that's an honest question...then the honest answer is that someone who has not worked with leather extensively, or made shoes, or actually done the work (beyond dabbling)...tried, failed, succeeded, tried again, and again, and again,day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, etc. ...is damn sure not going to know.

And while there is no onus, no culpability in ignorance, per se, there is a certain responsibility that comes with claiming / pretending to knowledge. Especially knowledge that one doesn't actually have. How many pairs of shoes have been ruined because someone...like you...gave un-informed and apocryphal advice with no objective basis to be doing so?

Too many people can't be bothered to take responsibility for what they say (or do) these days...don't even want to think about the implications.

Loose lips sink ships.

--
Edited by DWFII - 1/3/16 at 7:21am
post #3410 of 3684
I will have a pair of suede boots made on my last. Calf suede is the go-to, but I'm also pondering about other animals that have similar hides. Naturally, I'm looking for the strongest suedes available. What recommendations do you all have?
post #3411 of 3684
Quote:
Originally Posted by VRaivio View Post

I will have a pair of suede boots made on my last. Calf suede is the go-to, but I'm also pondering about other animals that have similar hides. Naturally, I'm looking for the strongest suedes available. What recommendations do you all have?

 

Kudu suede (reverse kudu) would be one option (I'm not talking about the fake alden 'Kudu', but the one that comes from culled antelopes).

post #3412 of 3684
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

If that's an honest question...then the honest answer is that someone who has not worked with leather extensively, or made shoes, or actually done the work (beyond dabbling)...tried, failed, succeeded, tried again, and again, and again,day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, etc. ...is damn sure not going to know.

And while there is no onus, no culpability in ignorance, per se, there is a certain responsibility that comes with claiming / pretending to knowledge. Especially knowledge that one doesn't actually have. How many pairs of shoes have been ruined because someone...like you...gave un-informed and apocryphal advice with no objective basis to be doing so?

Too many people can't be bothered to take responsibility for what they say (or do) these days...don't even want to think about the implications.

Loose lips sink ships.

--

The passion of one who loves what he does.
post #3413 of 3684
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


... blah blah blah day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, etc. ... blah blah blah ... ignorance... blah blah blah ... un-informed ... blaha blah blah ...

 

FIFY.

 

How many pairs have you bleached Mr Shoemaker?

post #3414 of 3684

Again?

 

:brick:

post #3415 of 3684
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyinsanfran View Post
 

 

Kudu suede (reverse kudu) would be one option (I'm not talking about the fake alden 'Kudu', but the one that comes from culled antelopes).

 

   or the St C reverse option works well too

post #3416 of 3684
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Use all those solutions without washing/water isn't exactly going to get rid of the pigments?  Its true that I might etched the top surface of the leather thus the decoloration and might as well use 600 grit + sandpaper.  But who knows. 

I don't bleach shoes...I don't think it is good for the leather. That said, I do know the difference between "bleaching" and scrubbing / scraping the finish off. Which, given your admission above, you apparently do not.

And FWIW, I remove stains in leather with oxalic acid nearly every day. But, as I demonstrated in the above photo sequence,that's not bleaching either.
post #3417 of 3684
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


I don't bleach shoes...I don't think it is good for the leather. That said, I do know the difference between "bleaching" and scrubbing / scraping the finish off. Which, given your admission above, you apparently do not.

And FWIW, I remove stains in leather with oxalic acid nearly every day. But, as I demonstrated in the above photo sequence,that's not bleaching either.

 

Okay then.  You have no experience in creating bleaching effects, be it sanding or using other corrosive solutions.  Got it.

 

So what is good for leather during the creation process?  Punching broguing holes? Gimping? Skyving? Lasting? Dying? Stripping? Bleaching? Sanding? Tattoing? Carving? Sun bleaching? Storing it in moonwell for the aging effect? Or burying them in mud in a sea bed?  Might as well not tightly last the upper to ensure the leather is stretched and spread thinly...

 

Note that this has nothing to do with leather care as that happens after everything is done.

post #3418 of 3684
There's something to be said for "focus." And reality. And sticking to the subject. Your post is so muddled and confused...and conflated with other issues that didn't and don't bear on the subject at hand...that it's nearly nonsensical.

What is good for leather?...respect, for one thing. The same kind of respect that everyone who actually works with his hands has for the materials he works with. The same kind of respect that every creative spirit...as opposed to exploitative...has for his materials.

Such as the sculptor has for the stone. The cabinetmaker for the wood. The shoemaker for the leather and the techniques and the tools. The kind of respect that results in an honest, objective (and earned) knowledge of strengths and weaknesses.

It's as simple as the respect of the maker vs. indifference of the user.

Respect such as: If you want a pair of burgundy shoes, choose burgundy leather. Period. Don't try to presto-chango, magical thinking, convert a buttercup leather to burgundy by sanding it down or bleaching it or whatever. "Corrosive" is the right and operative word. There's no more respect in such approaches than letting your shoes sit in a bright window for 6 months to bleach them and then expecting the leather to be anything but permanently damaged. Or drying them next to a campfire.

But beyond that...and to drag this back to the main point and where we started...my point was, and is, that oxalic acid is not a bleach. It will not lighten any kind of leather.

You keep telling people that it is a bleach despite the fact that you have no evidence to support your claim. Despite the fact that I have tried to advise you to the contrary several times. Despite the fact that almost a month ago I posted a photo spread that virtually proved that oxalic acid will not bleach leather.

The dismissal of this evidence, the dismissal of people, and advice from people, who actually have long term, extensive, professional experience with the matter at hand is irresponsible. It's ignorant. And when a person is shown...objectively, graphically, factually....that they are mistaken, to persist is willful ignorance. And to continue to spread that false narrative...a fountain of darkness in a world of light...is deliberately, perhaps even maliciously, misleading.

Repeating misinformation over and over again cannot, will not, make it true. Changing the subject doesn't change what is true.

edited for punctuation and clarity
Edited by DWFII - 1/6/16 at 6:28am
post #3419 of 3684
Quote:
Originally Posted by VRaivio View Post

I will have a pair of suede boots made on my last. Calf suede is the go-to, but I'm also pondering about other animals that have similar hides. Naturally, I'm looking for the strongest suedes available. What recommendations do you all have?

http://www.styleforum.net/t/354137/leather-quality-and-properties/2085#post_8255093
post #3420 of 3684

Hi there,

 

These are my Vito Artioli Lizard skin shoes. My pictures aren't the best, but I haven't seen another pair of these, so I hope you like them. They feel incredible on my feet, and the craftsmanship seems quite a high standard, compared to others I've had from a similar price range.

 

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