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The Ultimate "HARDCORE" Shoe Porn Thread (Bespoke only) - Page 123

post #1831 of 2469

I've always been curious as to making and lasting a whole cut. You see in the link above that the upper leather is stretched over the last whole. There is no lining and even if there was, the top line is cut last (after being lasted) so how would you sew the top line exterior leather to the lining?

Is the first step to last the exterior leather, remove last (a week later maybe) through bottom while trying to cause as little distortion as possible. Last lining separately (if lining is also seemless), relast the exterior over the lining then cut top line openning. Allow to dry for a week, unlast the lining and exterior together and then sew the topline.

Any of this make sense?
post #1832 of 2469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenon View Post

I've always been curious as to making and lasting a whole cut. You see in the link above that the upper leather is stretched over the last whole. There is no lining and even if there was, the top line is cut last (after being lasted) so how would you sew the top line exterior leather to the lining?

Is the first step to last the exterior leather, remove last (a week later maybe) through bottom while trying to cause as little distortion as possible. Last lining separately (if lining is also seemless), relast the exterior over the lining then cut top line openning. Allow to dry for a week, unlast the lining and exterior together and then sew the topline.

Any of this make sense?

Well, I'm not Bengal, but the process you see in the link is not really and truly lasting the shoe. It is simply "blocking" the upper. For whole cuts (with a back seam) that can be done on a board, as well. Or, it doesn't have to be done at all. Although I believe that blocking makes a better, tighter shoe, less prone to distortion.

But once the leather has dried in that shape, the top line and facings will be cut and the blocked upper removed from the last. At which point the lining will be added and stitched...as with any shoe. And then, and only then, will the shoe actually be lasted. (it's a little more complicated than that but that's the idea).
post #1833 of 2469
Hey Mr. DWF, do you travel to Hong Kong for order? I can pause my next order from G&G:lol:

BTW, I can't believe there is academic chatting even for the sock insole.
post #1834 of 2469
Quote:
Originally Posted by add911_11 View Post

Hey Mr. DWF, do you travel to Hong Kong for order? I can pause my next order from G&G:lol:

Sorry, I'm too old ...but Oregon isn't that far from Hong Kong happy.gif
Quote:
BTW, I can't believe there is academic chatting even for the sock insole.

In fact, if you want to get technical...and every shoemaker should...there is no such thing as a "sock insole." There is a "sock" (short for "sock liner") and there is the insole. Two different things entirely with two differnt functions.
post #1835 of 2469
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Sorry, I'm too old ...but Oregon isn't that far from Hong Kong happy.gif
In fact, if you want to get technical...and every shoemaker should...there is no such thing as a "sock insole." There is a "sock" (short for "sock liner") and there is the insole. Two different things entirely with two differnt functions.

O dear, it seems I still have a lot to learn.

I always find your work amazing, and hopefully one time I can have the chance to come and get something made.
post #1836 of 2469
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Yes, I've seen that and done that. I was hoping that it was not "a Tradition in English bespoke" work.

This is the traditional English way of lining formal shoes, it does not apply to boots, nor to "Casuals" (loafers). As anything outside black is considered not formal, you have a bit of a grey area with brown leathers here. Some firms will employ upper leather, some will not. It also does not apply to exotic, fancy grain or suede as upper material. But in recent years, some firms have discovered kid in all colours of the rainbow as lining leather.

Vintage John Lobb (London)



Cleverley “Russian Reindeer”




John Lobb will be extremely consistent (unless you ask for different specifications): back: lining in upper leather, front lining in "horse". I was told "horse" was traditionally a horse front but is now the bottom split of a cow hide, it is extremely soft with lots of 'pull' and rather yellow in colour. Although that tradition of lining the back in upper leather might have been born from economic necessity (to utilize more of a given hide), I do not think that this is important any more. After all, English bespoke shoes waste hide by not cutting the leather away from underneath a toe cap or a counter at the heel (you have two layers of leather there).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Second...and consistent with the first...English lining kip is a natural ivory colour. It will never stain socks.

Now that is a really important reason for all those who love to wear white socks with formal shoes. biggrin.gif


All pictures taken from “Centipede” the greatest treasure trove in vintage shoes

http://centipede.web.fc2.com/
post #1837 of 2469
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post


Now that is a really important reason for all those who love to wear white socks with formal shoes. biggrin.gif

Or grey or tan or light blue or sage green or even argyle. But hey, perhaps traditional English shoemaking doesn't recognize sock colours other than black.
post #1838 of 2469
You probably don't remember these goyser-stitched boots from way back in the thread...



...but they were finished a while ago...



...and have not led a sheltered life.



But they do exactly what I want them to, and I'm well-pleased with them for the very shoe-unfriendly environment of Norway. A good experience overall.
post #1839 of 2469
John Lobb St James. Have to say the fit is bang on despite no trial fittings. Some issues with finishing that they are addressing, however.


post #1840 of 2469
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrybrowne View Post

John Lobb St James. Have to say the fit is bang on despite no trial fittings. Some issues with finishing that they are addressing, however.



Congrats, that is a bloody fine pair of English bespoke shoe. Hope you spend the extra to get a pair of trees, albeit they are extremely expensive.
post #1841 of 2469
Quote:
Originally Posted by add911_11 View Post

Congrats, that is a bloody fine pair of English bespoke shoe. Hope you spend the extra to get a pair of trees, albeit they are extremely expensive.

Thanks! I can't bring myself to buy the JL trees. They are very nice, but as you noted, a rip off......
post #1842 of 2469

Hey all. What is the difference between Benchmade, Handgrade, and Custom Grade shoemaking? Is there an actual difference or do they just signify different lines/pricepoints?

post #1843 of 2469
It's mostly marketing and the quality impact really has to be evaluated on a case by case basis.
post #1844 of 2469
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrybrowne View Post

Thanks! I can't bring myself to buy the JL trees. They are very nice, but as you noted, a rip off......

I am sure normal shoe tree from Jones bootmaker will do the job icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #1845 of 2469
Quote:
Originally Posted by JermynStreet View Post

Hey all. What is the difference between Benchmade, Handgrade, and Custom Grade shoemaking? Is there an actual difference or do they just signify different lines/pricepoints?

What's the difference between leather and Genuine Faux Leather™ ? What's the difference between cow leather and shrunken grain leather (AKA "Bullhide")?

Answer...across the board...marketing hype. [Yes, there are real and significant differences in the examples provided, but the intent is to deceive.]

The average consumer does not know what Benchmade means. They think they do but it can mean one thing for Company X and another for Company Y. And no certainty that there is any relationship whatsoever between what the words ostensibly mean and the actual techniques used or the quality suggested. Similarly with Handgrade and Custom grade. Even a shoemaker couldn't know unless the specs were laid out for all to see.

But, hey, they all sound absolutely marvelous. Benchmade...must be special.

The one thing you can almost always be sure of is that if makers start using "weasel words," they're hiding something. If the product is not presented as "hand lasted" and/or "hand welted", etc., you can be sure it is not.

--
Edited by DWFII - 4/11/13 at 7:59am
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