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Is marriage outdated, unnecessary unless live your religion? - Page 2

post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soph
--- 3 times. But love is not a permanent state of mind. And the divorce rate is against you, as is the unhappy marriages. I'd say about 20% of marriages are actually "great, happy". So why not co habitate rather than marry. Why does this legal, financial contract hold so much status in society as this symbol of love etc. when it fails more often than succeeds.

Love is not a permanent state of mind? Have to disagree with you there. Obviously I don't know how your three previous "in love" relationships ended but every woman I've ever fallen for has remained a friend. I love them, and probably always will, but we both realize that we were not meant to spend the rest of our lives together.

Even if 20% of marriages are "great,happy" why not endeavour to be part of that percentile? Who's stopping you?

A.
post #17 of 29
Soph, how were your parents growing up? How was your relationship with your mother?
post #18 of 29
There's the old joke that only nuns, priests and homosexuals talk about marriage. I've been married for decades and note that married people never talk about marriage.
post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNWorn
The OP never mentioned anything about child rearing. If a couple chooses not to have children, a marriage is no more than an anouncement to the world that they've decided to enter into a monogamous for as long as they both can stand each other. And in my opinion, too many people take marriage too lightly these days.


The OP asked why a couple should get married and stay in a relationship when that's not the natural state. He suggested that people should co-habitate and then move on when the relationship no longer suits them - that relationships are not meant to be eternal. I suggested that one reason people should stay in a monogomous relationship is because this is the ideal relationship in which to raise children. His question didn't mention child-rearing, but my answer did.

I'm sure there are other reasons why people get married, but this is one of them.
post #20 of 29
According to the Mad magazine philosophy,

"It's romance when you plan your weekend around her.
It's love when you plan your life around her.
It's a relationship when you plan your tax return around her."
post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantucket Red
According to the Mad magazine philosophy,

"It's romance when you plan your weekend around her.
It's love when you plan your life around her.
It's a relationship when you plan your tax return around her."

Its only business when you hide money from her in numbered Swiss accounts.

Oh, I keed...

Jon.
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by imageWIS
Its only business when you hide money from her in numbered Swiss accounts.

Oh, I keed...

Jon.

Marriage will never be outdated as long as there are financial advantages to it.

Of course, the same argument applies to divorce.
post #23 of 29
Here's an interesting study from the Urban Institute comparing marriage and cohabitation, which I believe is Soph's original question...

http://www.urban.org/publications/311001.html

Read at your leisure.
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by odoreater
Just because you know some people that it works for and that in your "opinion" a kid is just as well off in either relationship, does not mean that those are the facts. Here's a little excerpt for you (I have more if you want):

Children from divorced families drop out of school at twice the rate of children from intact families.

The single best predictor of teen suicide is parental divorce and living in a single parent household.

Children of divorced parents are significantly more likely to become delinquent by age 15, regardless of when the divorce took place, than are children whose own parents are married.

Comparing all family structures, drug use in children is lowest in the intact married family.

Children whose parents divorce have lower rates of graduation from high school and college and also complete fewer college courses.

Children from divorced homes performed more poorly in reading, spelling, and math and repeated a grade more frequently than did children from intact two-parent families.

The college attendance rate is about 60 percent lower among children of divorced parents compared with children of intact families.

Divorce has been found to be associated with a higher incidence of depression, withdrawal from friends and family; aggressive, impulsive, or hyperactive behavior; and either withdrawing from participation in the classroom or becoming disruptive.

Adult children of divorced parents experience mental health problems significantly more often than do the adult children of intact families.

But that doesn't mean theres cause and effect between divorce and those outcomes. Some of the characteristics that make someone a crappy parent (self-centeredness, insecurity, immaturity, lack of discipline) tend to be the kind of characteristics that would make them more likely to get divorced. So maybe it's not divorce causing those things, it's shitty parenting.
post #25 of 29
I can only speak for myself. For me, marriage is in no way outdated. I get more pleasure from my marriage than from anything else that I have ever experienced.
post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soph
--- 3 times. But love is not a permanent state of mind. And the divorce rate is against you, as is the unhappy marriages. I'd say about 20% of marriages are actually "great, happy". So why not co habitate rather than marry. Why does this legal, financial contract hold so much status in society as this symbol of love etc. when it fails more often than succeeds.


Love can be a permanent state of mind. Your saying "the divorce rate is against you," etc. is a fallacy. You are simply saying that the majority of marriages end in divorce--that doesn't mean yours will. There are far too many factors involved to say that because the divorce rate is X% that means any marriages have that X% chance of ending in divorce. Statistics doesn't work that way.

Further, just because one signs a legal piece of paper doesn't automatically mean the relationship will end. Nor does NOT signing it mean it will be forever joyful.


Your latter question of why marriage holds the position in society it does given the divorce rate is perfectly valid however. And I think it's a good question. Why do people still marry (why am I marrying in a few months)? Well, I suppose for some it's because it is "what you do," or because it is a quick way (if you want as short as 20 minutes of your time) to codify a ton of legal rights.

My fiancee and I are both atheist yet we've chosen to marry to, in a way, say that this is for real. We could just hire a lawyer to write up the equivilant power of attorney, wills, etc. but let's have a big party and tell everyone how we feel about each other and gain all of those rights at the very swift swoop of a pen. The state will now have no power to divest us of these rights (inheritence, hospital visitation rights, etc.).

And, no, I have no idea if this is logically consistent or even answers the question.


b
post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soph
--I've had many girls be my companion, but I'm curious if humans were designed to spend lifetimes with only one mate? It's doesn't seem like a natural state depsite a clear famaliarality, support and lasting passion?.


I'm sorry but, "natural state"? Are we so devolved that we cannot overcome what biology determined is best for us millions of years ago? Just because you have the urge to procreate with as many partners as possible does not mean that you have to do it. Aside from the fact that we biologically need not worry about this (humans aren't going extinct any time soon), in a committed relationship, such behavior can be hurtful to one or both partners.

b
post #28 of 29
I don't think it's outdated, but I do think a lot of people leap in to it without thinking things through, as evidenced by the divorce rate. This ties in with my theory that a lot of people get lonely and/or tired of dating and eventually just settle for someone, even though that person isn't ideal.

They may convince themselves that they're in love in order to rationalize the decision, but it's far from rational. I'm not saying this is the case of every marriage, but it happens more often than people are willing to admit. With women working these days, I think it's very important to decide before you tie the knot who's going to be doing what after the kids are born. I'm sure some women don't mind taking care of kids all day, but others want careers and I see that as a big point of friction. And obviously the biggest thing people fight about when they're married is money. So if you're a tightass, it would be pretty stupid to marry a girl that wants to shop at Chanel all the time. Compromise is obviously a big part of a successful marriage, but i think you have to establish the limits before tying the knot. I think a lot of people get so caught-up in the emotional stuff before they get married that they fail to consider all the implications.
post #29 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggs
Soph, how were your parents growing up? How was your relationship with your mother?

**The details of my life are quite inconsequential... very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum... it's breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it.
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