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Vass vs. Alfred Sargent "Handgrade" - Page 7

post #91 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
When driving, I'll take several lefts rather than making a right. - B
I always knew that M3 with AE interior leather would come in handy
post #92 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by luk-cha View Post
AS offer no value to me and i find some of the designs to be off balance also i dont like how the heel counter on those adelaides are seamed just a sign of cutting cost to improve yields on the leather,to me they just a bench grade C&J and copied G&G's sole and then stuck a premium on them, . i'd reather get C&J, G&G or EG or JLP if you are looking for a round toed last then Vass F last is the best RTW last on the market

With thanks to Groover:



Quote:
Originally Posted by fox81 View Post
i thought the AS handgrades were good value at the introductory price of 450gbp, but at 640gbp they come up against some stiff competition.



I think C&J are rightly criticised for their use of two-piece heel counters on their shoes. I don't like having to pay C&J prices for this feature, so I'm certainly not prepared to pay what AS are asking for. Which is a shame, since I think that particular model looks great otherwise.
post #93 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKDKid View Post
I think C&J are rightly criticised for their use of two-piece heel counters on their shoes. I don't like having to pay C&J prices for this feature, so I'm certainly not prepared to pay what AS are asking for. Which is a shame, since I think that particular model looks great otherwise.

is this the only proof we have? then we can move on. no worries.

i like the look and i doubt, it's a disadvantage... ...but i'll do a research.
post #94 of 147

Vass top, AS below


This image below shows the thickness of the AS leather (on the left).


and then there's the beautiful sole ..



Vass U on left, AS HG on right


Edited by Pliny - 10/15/11 at 3:08am
post #95 of 147
^ I'd take either one of them, thank you. However, I see the difference and respectfully note how such differences can be "deal-breakers" for some of you guys.

While the axial curve in the fiddled sole theoretically can add strength, specifically greater resistance to bending, than a flat sole, is such a feature negligible? A quality such as the fiddled sole would certainly be desirable if it did provide stability in the wearer's midfoot which is intrinsically more flexible and thus could fatigue more quickly. But, to make such a fiddled waist, does the manufacturing require, then, a thinner sole to achieve the contouring and therefore negate the difference between the two types of waist due to the thinness? And I'm not saying the soles are more thin, just a theoretical question.
post #96 of 147
Horns if I understand you right you can have both: a London waist and double thickness leather: e.g. the AS HG fiddled sole above is a double.
Further to OP's q'n: the reasons I would put AS HG in a different class to Vass are 1. superior leather 2. flawless stitching 3. choice re: beveled and London waist 4. relationship with makers if you speak English (Chay Cooper is a prince) 5. almost limitless choices in last, style, colour etc
post #97 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pliny View Post
Horns if I understand you right you can have both: a London waist and double thickness leather: e.g. the AS HG fiddled sole above is a double.
Further to OP's q'n: the reasons I would put AS HG in a different class to Vass are 1. superior leather 2. flawless stitching 3. choice re: beveled and London waist 4. relationship with makers if you speak English (Chay Cooper is a prince) 5. almost limitless choices in last, style, colour etc

I have not handled a pair of AS handgrades but I disagree with you. The difference in leather has been discussed elsewhere, Vass uses aniline weather which differs from leather english shoe makers use, it is not bad and actually ages better but I can see why you may not like it and think that it is thin. I also don't think that beveled waist contributes to better fit,as for styles and colors, I have seen a lot more styles and colors from Vass than I have from AS. I don't think that you can even compare them in this category.
Having said that,you should expect AS to make a slightly better finish as there is a price premium,if I recall correctly,AS handgrade is close or over $1K per pair whereas Vass is $500-600 per pair,which is only half of AS handgrade price.
So,can you really compare these two?
post #98 of 147

 Mine are really MTO but in a hand grade last. The possibilities are infinite in the MTO program which is is more or less expensive depending on what u want. Vass doesn't do this.


Edited by Pliny - 10/15/11 at 3:09am
post #99 of 147
Pliny - thanks for comparing the two! I find the calf leathers used by Vass and the English makers to be quite different as Forex mentioned. The Vass seems smoother while the English seems a bit more grainy. Tough to say which is better although the grains of the English leather definitely seems to lend itself for more antiquing.

I'd say this pair of AS Handgrade is the best example of their calf leather I've seen in pictures. It looks very refined. I think they've only gotten better in this regard which is good to see they are constantly looking to improve.

I too am not a construction expert although I'm sure they're both on a very high level.
post #100 of 147
I will try to post in due course, my personal thoughts on the evolution of the AS handgrades over the one year period.

As for now, all I can say is,

1) Chay is a top bloke.
2) It is good that we have choices like EG, Vass, G&G and others. At the top tier, there are some areas that certain makers excel relative to others and add personal preferences to the equation, it becomes difficult to make blanket statements that one is better than the next.
post #101 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by upnorth View Post
I will try to post in due course, my personal thoughts on the evolution of the AS handgrades over the one year period.

As for now, all I can say is,

1) Chay is a top bloke.
2) It is good that we have choices.

Comparing AS and VAss is quite unfair to both makers. They make different types of shoes. A more valid comparison would be EG, AS and G+G. They all make great shoes. One significant difference that I believe makes EG & AS superior is the bed lasting. I believe there is a video floating around which shows this being done and where EG claims they are the only ones doing it. My understanding is that AS does it as well.

More important though is this:



I think that is perfect.
post #102 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burton View Post
I think that is perfect.

Burton - Looks great! Which last is that?
post #103 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewfoot View Post
Burton - Looks great! Which last is that?

That's the 53 last. I agree - quite amazing.
post #104 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burton View Post
I have the exact shoe you are looking at. I have often thought about purchasing a pair of Vass shoes, however, I just don't see them as appropriate for most business wear. I like the idea for a casual weekend shoe but I don't think they have the presence of the Sargents.
brown shoes aren't business wear anyway.
post #105 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCrockett View Post
brown shoes aren't business wear anyway.

+1,and how is Vass not business wear? F last is classic.
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