Vass vs. Alfred Sargent "Handgrade" - Page 7

I always knew that M3 with AE interior leather would come in handy

With thanks to Groover:






I think C&J are rightly criticised for their use of two-piece heel counters on their shoes. I don't like having to pay C&J prices for this feature, so I'm certainly not prepared to pay what AS are asking for. Which is a shame, since I think that particular model looks great otherwise.

is this the only proof we have? then we can move on. no worries.

i like the look and i doubt, it's a disadvantage... ...but i'll do a research.

Vass top, AS below


This image below shows the thickness of the AS leather (on the left).


and then there's the beautiful sole ..



Vass U on left, AS HG on right

Edited by Pliny - 10/15/11 at 3:08am

^ I'd take either one of them, thank you. However, I see the difference and respectfully note how such differences can be "deal-breakers" for some of you guys.

While the axial curve in the fiddled sole theoretically can add strength, specifically greater resistance to bending, than a flat sole, is such a feature negligible? A quality such as the fiddled sole would certainly be desirable if it did provide stability in the wearer's midfoot which is intrinsically more flexible and thus could fatigue more quickly. But, to make such a fiddled waist, does the manufacturing require, then, a thinner sole to achieve the contouring and therefore negate the difference between the two types of waist due to the thinness? And I'm not saying the soles are more thin, just a theoretical question.

Horns if I understand you right you can have both: a London waist and double thickness leather: e.g. the AS HG fiddled sole above is a double.
Further to OP's q'n: the reasons I would put AS HG in a different class to Vass are 1. superior leather 2. flawless stitching 3. choice re: beveled and London waist 4. relationship with makers if you speak English (Chay Cooper is a prince) 5. almost limitless choices in last, style, colour etc

I have not handled a pair of AS handgrades but I disagree with you. The difference in leather has been discussed elsewhere, Vass uses aniline weather which differs from leather english shoe makers use, it is not bad and actually ages better but I can see why you may not like it and think that it is thin. I also don't think that beveled waist contributes to better fit,as for styles and colors, I have seen a lot more styles and colors from Vass than I have from AS. I don't think that you can even compare them in this category.
Having said that,you should expect AS to make a slightly better finish as there is a price premium,if I recall correctly,AS handgrade is close or over $1K per pair whereas Vass is $500-600 per pair,which is only half of AS handgrade price.
So,can you really compare these two?

 Mine are really MTO but in a hand grade last. The possibilities are infinite in the MTO program which is is more or less expensive depending on what u want. Vass doesn't do this.

Edited by Pliny - 10/15/11 at 3:09am

Pliny - thanks for comparing the two! I find the calf leathers used by Vass and the English makers to be quite different as Forex mentioned. The Vass seems smoother while the English seems a bit more grainy. Tough to say which is better although the grains of the English leather definitely seems to lend itself for more antiquing.

I'd say this pair of AS Handgrade is the best example of their calf leather I've seen in pictures. It looks very refined. I think they've only gotten better in this regard which is good to see they are constantly looking to improve.

I too am not a construction expert although I'm sure they're both on a very high level.

I will try to post in due course, my personal thoughts on the evolution of the AS handgrades over the one year period.

As for now, all I can say is,

1) Chay is a top bloke.
2) It is good that we have choices like EG, Vass, G&G and others. At the top tier, there are some areas that certain makers excel relative to others and add personal preferences to the equation, it becomes difficult to make blanket statements that one is better than the next.

Comparing AS and VAss is quite unfair to both makers. They make different types of shoes. A more valid comparison would be EG, AS and G+G. They all make great shoes. One significant difference that I believe makes EG & AS superior is the bed lasting. I believe there is a video floating around which shows this being done and where EG claims they are the only ones doing it. My understanding is that AS does it as well.

More important though is this:



I think that is perfect.

Burton - Looks great! Which last is that?

That's the 53 last. I agree - quite amazing.

brown shoes aren't business wear anyway.

+1,and how is Vass not business wear? F last is classic.