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Guns? (do you carry?) revived - Page 9

post #121 of 200
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNWorn
I believe the gist of it is that you are not allowed to use deadly forced in "hot pursuit" of property. Deadly forced is allowed in very narrow circumstances, i.e. when your life is in imminent danger and you cannot safely retreat, or you're defending another in a similar situation.

If someone has a gun to your head, no doubt the better solution is just to hand over your property.

So how would this work if you drew your gun after he left, and then yelled "fuck you" or something at the guy and he turned and reached for a weapon? Would you be justified in shooting him then?
post #122 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNWorn
A somewhat related news event: Maurice Clarett found with 3 semi-automatic handguns and an assault riffle. He was also wearing a bullet proof vest. What a shame the speed of this kid's descent. A few years a go he was due to be a top 3 pick, now he's due in the jail house.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2545493

That picture looks like it should be a Warren Zevon album cover.
post #123 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNWorn
A somewhat related news event: Maurice Clarett found with 3 semi-automatic handguns and an assault riffle. He was also wearing a bullet proof vest. What a shame the speed of this kid's descent. A few years a go he was due to be a top 3 pick, now he's due in the jail house.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2545493


The lint roller is a nice touch.
post #124 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBZ
The lint roller is a nice touch.

The man has his sensitive side too.
post #125 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by drizzt3117
So how would this work if you drew your gun after he left, and then yelled "fuck you" or something at the guy and he turned and reached for a weapon? Would you be justified in shooting him then?

Well, I assume by the time you said "fuck you," your gun is already drawn? Or would you be pulling your gun out a la The Quick and the Dead style?

In the former case, I doubt you'll get much sympathy from a jury. In the latter, they might let you get off the hook if you were tried in...say, Texas.
post #126 of 200
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNWorn
Well, I assume by the time you said "fuck you," your gun is already drawn? Or would you be pulling your gun out a la The Quick and the Dead style?

In the former case, I doubt you'll get much sympathy from a jury. In the latter, they might let you get off the hook if you were tried in...say, Texas.

Unless there are bystanders, isn't the forensic evidence only going to show the fact that the guy is holding a weapon that has his fingerprints all over it? Obviously the interpretation could be anything, unless you're being recorded by satellites or something, he could have stolen your wallet, and decided to shoot you anyways after starting to leave?
post #127 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by drizzt3117
Unless there are bystanders, isn't the forensic evidence only going to show the fact that the guy is holding a weapon that has his fingerprints all over it? Obviously the interpretation could be anything, unless you're being recorded by satellites or something, he could have stolen your wallet, and decided to shoot you anyways after starting to leave?
I guess if you're a cold enough M.F. to blow a guy away from a distance when you are safe to run away, then you could probably get away with it. Just remember to repeat "I want to cooperate with your investigation, officer, but I must speak to my attorney first." And be ready to shoot any witnesses.
post #128 of 200
unless you were stupid enough to tell the story, I am guessing that this is a walk - he robbed you, he has a gun, you have a gun, he is dead.
post #129 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by drizzt3117
Unless there are bystanders, isn't the forensic evidence only going to show the fact that the guy is holding a weapon that has his fingerprints all over it? Obviously the interpretation could be anything, unless you're being recorded by satellites or something, he could have stolen your wallet, and decided to shoot you anyways after starting to leave?
Quote:
Originally Posted by globetrotter
unless you were stupid enough to tell the story, I am guessing that this is a walk - he robbed you, he has a gun, you have a gun, he is dead.
Well, if you take the Fifth, then you don't say anything. When the case goes to trial, the judge will instruct the jury that just because you take the Fifth, that should in no way incriminate you as a defendant. However, jurors are reasonable people (so they seem at least) and most reasonable people are suspicious when it comes to the defendant taking the Fifth. Also, there are lesser charges than first degree murder. The prosecutor doesn't have to charge you with a first degree murder, he might decide that the evidence is only enough for second degree or manslaughter. With enough evidence, you just might be convicted even though you took the Fifth. Do you want to take that gamble for the price of a wallet, some cash, and the gratification that you capped some crummy motherfucker?
post #130 of 200
Anyone who owns or considers owning firearms for self defense purposes should read Massad Ayoob's books (or even better, take one of his courses).

Ayoob's use-of-force principles are built around the idea that any time you use lethal force, there is a high risk of prosecution, so you should plan and train in a manner that (1) minimizes the risk of prosecution and (2) minimizes the risk of conviction if you are in fact prosecuted. Ayoob makes the point that even in jurisdictions where "defense of property" is recognized a defense to a homicide charge, you should not rely on it because of the high risk of being second-guessed.
post #131 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNWorn
Well, if you take the Fifth, then you don't say anything. When the case goes to trial, the judge will instruct the jury that just because you take the Fifth, that should in no way incriminate you as a defendant. However, jurors are reasonable people (so they seem at least) and most reasonable people are suspicious when it comes to the defendant taking the Fifth. Also, there are lesser charges than first degree murder. The prosecutor doesn't have to charge you with a first degree murder, he might decide that the evidence is only enough for second degree or manslaughter. With enough evidence, you just might be convicted even though you took the Fifth. Do you want to take that gamble for the price of a wallet, some cash, and the gratification that you capped some crummy motherfucker?


that is one reason why I dont carry a gun.
post #132 of 200
Gun Laws vary... but in CO...

If someone pulls a gun and aims it at me, I may legally consider that deadly force and respond appropriately. In fact, knifes and bludgens may be considered deadly force also. Certain restrictions apply (so to speak)

I do carry on occasion a SIG, Glock or Kahr similar to those mentioned above. I have had formal CCW training and only "pack" when I am practiced. I feel that when the time comes (God forbid) I will be able to make the correct decision regarding use of force.

I do NOT believe that anything other than myself or another person is worth drawing for. Victum does not have the legal right to shoot the bad guy if he has DISengaged you after the robbery.

Cheers,
D
post #133 of 200
Well, I used to carry a Glock 22, the fullsizeed 40 Cal... I thought I needed to... Everywhere I went

Now I can't carry anything, anywhere. I am much happier.

Not an anti firearm hippy, but my experience is that life is much better when you don't need to and can't. From someone that thought he needed to and did

A public service message from....

Unarmed K
post #134 of 200
Hard to beat a P7M8.

Interesting perspective VKK, I doubt many people can relate as it's somewhat rare to have both experiences.

And at the risk of sounding like a troll, I have to admit the first post sounds sort of fishy.
post #135 of 200
That's quite an accusation. Drizzt has 4k+ worth of credible posts.
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