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Dating Disasters - Appearance - Page 3

post #31 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by EL72
So you're an essentially shallow and superficial person for whom appearances matter far more than other qualities

He's not the only one. I "dated" a girl that was really not my equal in terms of dress and appearance, for many of the same reasons as he started dating pussycat. I'm almost embarassed about it now. It didn't go on for anything close to three years, but still...

My worst dating disaster was when a guy from school hooked me up with a blind date. I'm not sure where he knew the girl from but (and i haven't spoken to him since heh) she was described as cute, thin, blonde, and eastern european. I don't do completely blind dates so I asked for photos. The pics looked really good, we exchanged emails and I agreed to accompany her to a company xmas dinner. We were going to meet at a nice hotel bar so that we could talk first and then make our way to the dinner. At the last minute she changed the plans because her friends wanted bon jovi tickets and there was a giveaway at the hard rock cafe. I now had to meet her and four friends at the hard rock cafe.

So I got there and started to look around for her. Unfortunately, she spotted me first or I honestly would have bolted and made up some excuse. I almost cried when I saw her. I recognized her from the picture except she was about 20lbs heavier and had major skin problems on her face, which there was no sign of in the pics. I was horrified. She almost ran over to me in her excitement of seeing me and started saying how elegant I looked. I have to admit, I did look good :P Anyway, she grabbed me by the arm and said I had to register so that I could help them in the draw. This delayed sitting down at a table with her so I agreed. What's worse, they were filming the giveaway and I was to be right in the center. I angled my chair as much as possible away from the announcer and the film crews. The whole time I was thinking "god I hope nobody I know sees this." Then her friend won a ticket... I just wanted it to be over. After her friends took off I had to tell her that I wasn't going to be up for dinner and that I'd developed a sudden headache. I was embarassed to even be standing beside her. If she was even average looking I could have dealt with it but she was fugly.

Based on that experience alone, I will never even consider internet dating. Low-res camera phones are going to make things even worse.
post #32 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by EL72
So you're an essentially shallow and superficial person for whom appearances matter far more than other qualities

Not exactly. I'm dissatisfied with the relationship in other ways that have nothing to do with appearance, but appearance is the deal breaker. It is also the subject of the thread.

I wouldn't describe Pussycat as "fugly"; she has a certain charm. But she is the least attractive woman I've been with, and if not for her excellent qualities of character and personality, this never would have lasted more than a few nights.

What I don't understand is that she has great taste in gifts. She has given me some exquisitely beautiful things ranging from wine glasses to neckties and cufflinks. She definitely has a certain eye for taste and quality. So why this enormous blind spot when it comes to her own personal appearance?

She seems to be frozen at age 18 in the 80s, half her life ago. In terms of style, she hasn't matured. She's clearly happy and comfortable staying this way, and brushes off any suggestions I might make about how she'd look great with a certain hairstyle or how she'd look "elite" in a certain piece of clothing. I've never belabored the point and never mentioned to her that she could use a radical makeover.

Granted, she did get a lot of cosmetic dentistry that made her smile more attractive, and she did it of her own accord. I realize she can't help not being pretty, and I have certainly never held it against her and wouldn't dream of berating her for it. Still, she could at least take the trouble to wash off her makeup at the end of the day, but never once has. Frankly, this strikes me as just plain slovenly. I've purposely overlooked it, but it's a huge turn-off that I think is indicative of a major difference in the social strata in which we were brought up (well, so is the clothing issue).

She's been a great girlfriend and deserves to be treated well. I want to let her down easy and remain friends. I dread the thought that I am condemning her to lonely misery by ending the relationship, but the truth is that we have no serious future together and I've reached the point where I have to move on.
post #33 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantucket Red
Not exactly. I'm dissatisfied with the relationship in other ways that have nothing to do with appearance...

If that's the case, then you seem to be contradicting your previous post where you say:


"...her only faults are that she happens not to be beautiful and dresses unattractively."


And so you want to break up with her despite the fact that:


"She turned out to be quite interesting, with a great personality and some interesting life experiences. She also turned out to be very sweet, honest and trustworthy, not to mention being very enjoyable company and a sexual dynamo. In short, one of the best girlfriends I've had.

...This is a woman who has been unfailingly sweet to me and loves me for who I am."



This strikes me as pretty shallow:


"... and have come to be too embarrassed to be seen with her.

Her appearance drags my image down, and this could now become a disaster."



Disclaimer: I'm not here to judge you. You are free to be as shallow and superficial as you possibly can and that's nobody's business. I was simply pointing out some inconsistencies.

I am no expert in relationships but I do know that the qualities you seem to like in her are more difficult to find in a partner than beauty and attractiveness - as corny as that might sound. Then again, if you cannot get past her homeliness and lack of style, it'll never work out.

Again, I hope I don't sound judgemental, that was not my intention.
post #34 of 66
I'm on the cusp of a painful breakup with someone I like a great deal. This is causing me a fair amount of emotional turmoil and hardly leaves me in the mood to focus on quibbles about consistency or whether or not my reasons may be shallow.

In terms of appearance, they are her only faults. The rest is nobody's damned business.
post #35 of 66
I understand and didn't mean to quibble. Sorry. I wish you well.
post #36 of 66
Thanks. No hard feelings.

When the only three friends to have actually met her have each taken me aside afterwords for a frank talk about how I should be with somebody closer to my own level (in more senses than mere appearance), it ceases to be a question of shallowness and becomes a more serious issue of social propriety.
post #37 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantucket Red
Thanks. No hard feelings.

When the only three friends to have actually met her have each taken me aside afterwords for a frank talk about how I should be with somebody closer to my own level (in more senses than mere appearance), it ceases to be a question of shallowness and becomes a more serious issue of social propriety.

My two cents: I appreciate your honesty, and I can empathize because I've been there before when I've ended up passive-agressively ending relationships with smart, interesting, reasonably attractive women who just weren't quite attractive, sexy or polished enough looking for me to get excited about. I wish I could say that I've matured enough that I would know how to handle the situation better now, and that I could at least be frank with them about my concerns instead of wimping out and contriving some stupid way for them to break up with me. But I'm not sure.

I guess my nightmare is having a genuinely good and nice woman that I really care about confront me with the painful question "Why can't you love me for who I am?"

But at the same time, I know that as dramatic and authentic as that question might seem in the moment, it's really bullshit. She wouldn't be changing the essence of what makes her 'HER' to simply dress with more style, or wear more flattering makeup, or make the effort to present herself in a way that makes her partner feel good about being seen with her. Sure, it might be an awkward conversation, and it might take a while for her to get over her hurt, but IF you think that she's otherwise a keeper, and IF you think your concerns can be dealt with with something as superficial as a new haircut, different makeup, better wardrobe, etc., it might be worth the difficult converstation and temporary hurt feelings (and possible screaming, crying, chair-throwing, withheld sex, etc.).

I would think that the fact that she has good taste and a good eye definitely weigh in favor of her ability to make the changes you desire -- maybe she can get over this blind spot about her own presentation. I am constantly amazed at the difference a slight tweak in hair, wardrobe and makeup can make to a woman's va-va-voom factor.

Of course if you two have significant differences in values, life goals, cultural sophistication, career-orientation, social interests, etc., that's a much tougher nut to crack.

Good luck.
post #38 of 66
Well, Quirk, thanks for the two cents.

She deserves an honest but gentle explanation, no matter how hard it is for me to tell her things that are bound to hurt and disappoint her. She is good about talking things over without throwing an absolute fit. Chickening out is not an option for me. It would be different if she'd been a fire-breathing bitch throughout the relationship, but she's been completely agreeable, pleasant and reliable. She deserves to know just why I'm dissatisfied and that she has the power to change most of the things I dislike -- at least in terms of appearance.

In the final analysis, though, it's a tough nut, and the end will come sooner or later when I meet someone who shares my long-term goals and values. She's aware of this at some level and hints at my eventually moving on and forgetting her, so even if she made herself over she'd only be forestalling the inevitable. At best, she may agree that the spark is gone and it's time to taper off and move on.

I just need the courage and resolve to be the "bad guy" and feel like crap about hurting her while I face the loneliness of no longer having her affection and support.
post #39 of 66
Quote:
When the only three friends to have actually met her have each taken me aside afterwords for a frank talk about how I should be with somebody closer to my own level (in more senses than mere appearance), it ceases to be a question of shallowness and becomes a more serious issue of social propriety.

I am not trying to judge, and please do not be offended, but the thought struck me that perhaps you need new friends instead of a new girlfriend...
post #40 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Harris
I am not trying to judge, and please do not be offended, but the thought struck me that perhaps you need new friends instead of a new girlfriend...

That would be a bit like cutting off my nose to spite my face.
post #41 of 66
You guys are being way too hard on nantucket. Most guys would be with more attractive women if they could pull it off. He shouldn't have to beat around the bush about it. The fact is, most men are shallow. Unfortunately, women can be just as picky as men so not every guy gets to date the really hot women (all else being equal) he'd prefer to date. If nantucket thinks he can, then more power too him. He shouldn't have to stick with a woman he finds unattractive because other people think it's the right thing to do. Attraction plays a big role in relationships.

I'm not trying to be judgmental of anyone in this thread, but i've seen it with a lot of married men, including my father. Despite all pretenses of being happy, you can tell that they settled for someone less than ideal in the looks department, often during times when they were lonely.

I'm not saying people should be cruel, but there's nothing wrong with cutting someone loose if you want to do better or if they let themselves slide.
post #42 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQgeek
You guys are being way too hard on nantucket. Most guys would be with more attractive women if they could pull it off. He shouldn't have to beat around the bush about it. The fact is, most men are shallow. Unfortunately, women can be just as picky as men so not every guy gets to date the really hot women (all else being equal) he'd prefer to date. If nantucket thinks he can, then more power too him. He shouldn't have to stick with a woman he finds unattractive because other people think it's the right thing to do. Attraction plays a big role in relationships.

I'm not trying to be judgmental of anyone in this thread, but i've seen it with a lot of married men, including my father. Despite all pretenses of being happy, you can tell that they settled for someone less than ideal in the looks department, often during times when they were lonely.

I'm not saying people should be cruel, but there's nothing wrong with cutting someone loose if you want to do better or if they let themselves slide.

So your dad should cut his wife loose because, clearly, she isn't hot enough to satisfy him? I sure hope that's a stepmom you're talking about at least.
post #43 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirk
So your dad should cut his wife loose because, clearly, she isn't hot enough to satisfy him? I sure hope that's a stepmom you're talking about at least.

My father is separated from my mother. The woman was he was living with for the last 5 years (she's finally gone woohoo!) was really not pretty. I have no doubt in my mind that if he had been in a different state of mind when he met her, he would have waited for something better. His story was somewhat like nantucket's. He'd had a very successful career up until he was about 50. He bought a hotel with my mother with the intention of running it together. She basically forced him out cause she wanted to do everything herself and she wanted him to get another job so that we'd (she'd) have more money. They were always fighting so he left. He was a finance guy, she was a spendthrift. Bad combo.

Now the woman he cheated on my mother with, however, was a very good looking woman, so I know the old man's got it in him!
post #44 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQgeek
He shouldn't have to stick with a woman he finds unattractive because other people think it's the right thing to do. Attraction plays a big role in relationships.

That is absolutely correct - no question. The only salient question is what makes a woman attractive to a man, and I believe it's not only looks. I think what makes a person attractive is a whole package - including looks. At the end of the day, if the package doesn't do it for you, there is no point in sticking around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GQgeek
Most guys would be with more attractive women if they could pull it off.

Ceteris Paribus, of course. But in reality there are always tradeoffs to make in searching for a life and mating partner. Sometimes you trade off some good looks or perfect 36Cs for some other aspect of the person you value. Don't forget that no man is a perfect 10 either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GQgeek
The fact is, most men are shallow.

I don't think so. We are biologically wired to stop thinking straight at the sight of a 19 yr old hottie but that doesn't mean we have to be shallow in our long-term relationships. Whether we should in fact be engaged in long-term relationships at all is an entirely different debate.
post #45 of 66
Nantucket Red, there are way too many babes in Nihon for you to be suffering like this. There's plenty of English teachers who get premium tail, and you have higher status than those guys - in short, you should have some great opportunities. Hopefully you can end this relationship with compassion, politeness and understanding and get someone who's more on your level. Seriously, I will raise a glass of precious Suntory Hibiki (down to my last bottle, I seriously need to get back to a duty free shop) to you when you accomplish this. Let us know how everything turns out.

PB
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