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Jones nyc suit - Page 2

post #16 of 22
Thread Starter 
Rider, According to your logic, the employee discount is only to 'dress the part of their dept. more easily.' If this is true, according to your standard, then employees at retail stores should only be allowed to purchase items from their specific area or section. If they work in men's underwear section, they shouldn't be allowed to buy electronics, much less suits then. Also, what about female employees who work in the men's dept. If we use your reasoning, women shouldn't be given a employee discount either since they're representing the men's dept, but are obviously not wearing men's clothing. IMHO, companies give employees discounts because it is good business. Instead of their employees buying items at their competition, these employees are given an incentive to buy from them. And, it has nothing to do with representing their dept since they could buy items from another company and customers wouldn't know the diff. These companies can sell more items, at a reduced profit, but they make it up with the volume sold. We are not talking about companies that are giving discounts of their cost. Rider, do you honestly think that these companies will pass down the savings to the customers. What was so revolutionary about Wal-Mart is that this company actually passed down the savings to the customer instead of keeping the profits and giving their management bigger bonuses. No, I didn't talk with managment. Frankly, I don't really respect them when they wouldn't allow my friend to buy something on sale, even if that was the price advertised in the newspaper and in the store. What do you think of this. You never addressed whether or not you agreed with this. Your silence seems to indicate that you absolutely agreed with the manager, and thus, disapproved of my conduct. I know this is going outside the thread, but do you know what ever happened to the lawsuit concerning a sales representative who sued his employer because they made him buy only their clothes.
post #17 of 22
esquire - I won't bother with the employee discount question as I think you know what is right and wrong. I will comment on mark-up. The formula to figure mark-up is Retail$-Wholesale$/Retail$=mark-up%. So, if you buy something for $50 and sell it for $100, you marked it up 50%. Most mens clothing stores work on an initial markup of 50-57%. If you buy a shirt for $20, you would probably sell it for $42.50. Out of that you have to pay your expenses (rent, payroll, health insurance, taxes/government fees, credit card fees, accounting costs, shipping costs, etc.) There was a thread not long ago by the guys doing e-bay sales and how the costs were escalating to a difficult level - you should try selling clothes and coping with the rising health care and payroll costs. The two most flexible area's in the expence side of things are rent and payroll. If you wish to shop at a store where someone can help you, a tailor can fit you, a shoe fitter will give you proper advice and you will be treated with respect and dignity, you can expect the retailer to make 50% return on your purchase. If , however, you prefer to shop on your own, find your own dry cleaner/ tailor, guess at how a shoe will fit and generally be left to yourself to look thru merchandise that regular customers have passed on, you can expect to provide much less to the store. Of course, the problem arises when people expect to be well served at 50% off. This is what has led to outlets that market merchandise at inflated prices, sourceing from Third World countries, and a general deceptive retail environment caused by the retailers themselves. This is why it would seem to you to be ok to buy a suit with your friend at a discounted price that you have not earned. It really is the retailers fault for creating this environment of distrust between store and customer. This is something small, family owned stores like ours are always fighting. Hope this helps understand some, maybe start a new thread to get more specific.
post #18 of 22
Thread Starter 
RIDER: I'll be the first to admit it:I was wrong about the mark-up of 65%. I couldn't find the exact source, but I did find another book explaing retail markup. In it, they defined it as: wholesale + 45% = full retail price. This doesn't include the keystone, of at least 5%, that some luxury stores use. So, including the keystone, this adds up to a markup of 50%, not 65%. I'm pretty sure I read 65% somewhere else, but I think that the author was using that number in reference to what it costs the factory to make and this difference to full retail price. THis is diff from wholesale price that the factory sells to the retailer and the full retail price. SOrry about the confusion. I should have been more honest from the beginning. This friend is really my partner. My relationship is as commited and true as any heterosexual marraige. The store gives employee discounts to spouses. However, in this country, we can't really be married, and as such, I am not recognized by my partner's company. I guess I'm still pretty bitter and angry about this. We've been together 4.5 yrs, and I was thinking bout getting a suit for our 5th anniversary together. I agree that retailers need to mark-up their prices to cover expenses and make a profit. But, in this book I can't find, they also listed mark-ups for other items. And, they were nowhere close to the mark-up of clothing. WHy does clothing have one of the highest mark-ups. Your right that stores charge this mark-up to include service. But, so many of your competitors have decided to cut expenses by getting rid of training, and thus service. My partner was telling me how they'll move employess from 1 area to another without reason. He'll be transferred to men's dept, and have to measure the customer's sizes even though he doesn't know how to. Thanks for the info, I truly learned a lot. Also, are outlets the only places that inflate the mark-up, to trick the customer. SOmetimes, it seems, regular retail stores do this too. It seems that certain items are always on sale, and I wonder if they were really meant to be sold at full retail. Thanks again. esquire
post #19 of 22
esquire - Good point, sorry that it is a dilema for you. Our shop would give you the discount under this circumstance. AS far as this book, forget it and leave it lost. Keystone is defined as twice cost. Another words, someone is showing me shoes and I ask what they are selling for and he says "keystone plus 10". Twice cost plus $10. I don't know where that formula you qoute came from but it does not work. Anyway, if a retailer provides you with good service, good merchandise and pays it's people well enough that they are a equal part of their community, than it is fair to assume that the store has doubled it's money - they HAVE to. As far as comparisons with other industries, remember, the appliance shop does'nt have to carry 15 sizes of that particular washer. Mark up % is not the only profit consideration for a store - inventory turn is just as important. The guy selling washers might carry 25 in his store that he has an investment in and maybe he delivers 50 per month. He keeps ordering washers off of the sample he invests in (or sells off the floor and keeps his inventory at 25 washers) while selling 600 washers in the year. He turns his money quickly. A shoe store can't carry 25 pair of shoes a hope to sell 600. Finally, yes, regular stores now do carry much 'private label' merchandise that is artificially inflated to account for markdowns. The consumer has become so accustomed to sale prices that this is thought of as the only way to survive. The department stores very rarely take the markdown on the sale merchandise they sell. It's either built in to the price or charges back to the manufacturer. Small stores do not have this luxury. Private label to us is a way to avoid the sale wars that go on now with the big stores and company owned outlets. I started going to Italy to buy shoes direct simply because I could not constantly match sale prices. It's ashame really, that we have let this happen. Ultimately, the consumer decides where the industry will go.
post #20 of 22
Thread Starter 
RIDER: I'm truly glad that you disagreed with the employee discount dilema, so that we are having this discussion now. I never thought about how the retail stores need to keep diff. sizes vs applicances. That was a really good explanation. Now that I know that keystone is just simply 2X the cost, how does your store determine that extra cost of $10 you used in that example. Is it correct to assume that higher end items which have a lower turnover will have a higher amount added onto the keystone. You're right about the direction of retail in this country. Unfortunately, I think its only going to get worse. I know that in business schools right now, they're using WalMart as a case study as how to succeed. As a small store, you probably don't get the same discounts as the retail stores because they can buy in bulk. Are you always going to be at a disadvantage to the big stores. Can you just simply return excess inventory. I know a family friend who manufactures items for WalMart, and they just simply return anything unsold. Personally, I find shopping at boutique stores intimidating. I much prefer the anonmity of shopping in a giant retail store.
post #21 of 22
esquire - Actually, there is no relationship between quality and turn. Sometimes your right and sometimes your wrong no matter the price. Sometimes a manufacturer will break out something unique that maybe we don't like so well and they want it in our stores. In cases like this, a rep might say that he will take back excess inventory to get it on the shelf, but not very often. Independents still need to be merchants. Department store buyers are not merchants anymore - they stay in the office and look at reports to dictate the merchandise selections. In many cases, the vendors take responsibility for the sale of merchandise and the profit to the store. No, we do not get too many discounts either. Not enough stores to bring alot in. I should say, however, that we really don't want this sort of deal. Most small, independent retailers are proud to still be in the business of honest merchandising, relationship building, and quality goods. It is just ashame that many customers are convinced that they got a good deal or that a particular garment is of good quality based on the label or that it was tailored properly when they so clearly did'nt get any of these things. BTW, if you want a good explanation of WALMART's history, get his autobiography. Good reading. Very different company now. Please get to know your local stores. They should not be intimidating if you just introduce yourself. Most times during the day here, you will find our customers just hanging out, talking. Much like this forum.
post #22 of 22
Thread Starter 
RIDER- Going into boutique stores is intimidating in the sense that I feel that I have to dress up with my sharpest clothes. If I don't, I'll feel like an outsider and that I don't belong. I'm confused about why your store wouldn't necessairly want the discounts from the vendors. Isn't that a good thing? I thought that when stores had discounts, that many times, this discount was covered by the vendor so that the store was making the same amount of profit. Could you explain why you wouldn't want this discount. You're so right about customers and labels. I attribute this to the fact that most people don't know what to look for in quality clothing. I know I'm like that. If I see Polo, I think that it must be somewhat higher in terms of quality. You better go to another thread I started, concerning fashion and morality. I threw some things out there, that were in the grey area, like using employee discount. Don't worry. I don't do most of the stuff, except the employee discount. Right now, its about 50% for employee discounts. You better stop all that nonsense. It was most informative hearing it from your perspective. Again, I really enjoyed this discussion.
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