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learning poker - Page 3

post #31 of 46
Just curious, how many people giving advice in this thread have won any serious money playing poker?
post #32 of 46
Depends on how you define "serious money". More importantly, why do you associate the amount of money won with the skill of the player or legitimacy of advice? Google Jerry Yang or Jamie Gold.
post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
Depends on how you define "serious money". More importantly, why do you associate the amount of money won with the skill of the player or legitimacy of advice? Google Jerry Yang or Jamie Gold.

I think a lot of people give advice about poker, both IRL and on the internet, that don't actually know shit about playing poker.

As for your second question, I'm not sure I understand. The goal of the game is to win money, so if you're not winning money, you're not that good at the game. I wouldn't take poker advice from someone who has never actually won any serious money playing poker.
post #34 of 46
ill link part of a post that i thought was great and gave insight to the thoughts of winning players. which description is of a winning player?
Quote:
He must hold AQ with 2 spades. His raise pre-flop indicates a strong hand, but its not too strong, as I saw a hint of nervousness in his eyes when two callers went in behind him. The flop contained a Queen of hearts, an 8 of clubs, and a 7 of spades. His initial move towards the chips was sturdy, indicating the best top pair there was. After he bets out, his stare indicating he needed to know where he was at, due to his stack size, which is average. This shows disappointment in his tournament so far, dwelling on that tight rope between a larger, commanding stack, and a small stack where he’d be ready to concede. His eagerness to see the turn card indicated he had spades, and wanted to see if he could redraw against his calling opponents, should the card be a draw helper or a blank. It is my conclusion that he has an AQ with 2 spades. Another possibility is 2 Jacks of any suit, although I’m discounting this greatly as I’m a godly hand predictor. I’ll make the prediction that in event of a check-raise, he’s going to pause for 1 minute, and take 2 looks at his cards. I’m very sure he will muck them. The turn action is irrelevant, as the river card is the most interesting card of the hand.
as opposed to
Quote:
A player raised from the Hijack position after being folded, his range is AA-66, KQo+, KTs+, A9s+. 2 callers, both cover him, likely range is any pocket, suited connector, maybe Axs. The caller from the BB is aggressive, the fact that he’s not squeezing is interesting. Flop is Q87r. BB checks, Hijack bets out ½ pot, I’d expect him to be betting a set, any draw, overpair, top pair, and maybe 99-JJ depending how tight he perceived the villains ranges are. One caller (button) to the turn, I’d expect him to be betting this turn maybe 20% of the time with his hand range, checking cards like the J which hit obvious draws. The button is weak-passive, so I’d expect him to fire a lot of rivers if he checks through the turn, nearly 80% of the time.
post #35 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by odoreater View Post
I think a lot of people give advice about poker, both IRL and on the internet, that don't actually know shit about playing poker.

As for your second question, I'm not sure I understand. The goal of the game is to win money, so if you're not winning money, you're not that good at the game. I wouldn't take poker advice from someone who has never actually won any serious money playing poker.

while I agree with you, I am in this to be able to play for 3-4 hours without loosing all my money and not embaressing myself. that would be suffitient for me.
post #36 of 46
I've just download an app called RedPokerClub for my android phone. You can play online against other people. If you have a smartphone, there might be a similar app for your phone. It's good practice, whenever you're sitting somewhere with time to waste.
post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by odoreater View Post
I think a lot of people give advice about poker, both IRL and on the internet, that don't actually know shit about playing poker. As for your second question, I'm not sure I understand. The goal of the game is to win money, so if you're not winning money, you're not that good at the game. I wouldn't take poker advice from someone who has never actually won any serious money playing poker.
You are correct, but aside from the people suggesting learning poker by playing with friends or learning omaha instead of hold'em, there isn't a whole lot of bad advice in this thread. It's pretty generic, of the type "read this book/website, play lots of hands, don't forget to do some post-game analysis b/c you learn a lot that way, read some 2+2, etc." There's none of the silly sort of "you always want to raise XX or shove in Y situation" advice that some people insist on giving. Most of the advice is actually pointing Globe to better resources. Most of the books are 2+2 approved, and many would say they are required reading. The videos are a good suggestion as well. As I think i've already stated, all of this is just meant to be a starting point. Nobody is giving advice on how to play heads-up in a high-stakes game, and most of this advice can be found in the 2+2 stickies as well...
post #38 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by odoreater View Post

As for your second question, I'm not sure I understand. The goal of the game is to win money, so if you're not winning money, you're not that good at the game. I wouldn't take poker advice from someone who has never actually won any serious money playing poker.

Because the amount of money won by itself is not an indicator of skill. Any clown with $215 in his PokerStars account can win a quarter million dollars on any given Sunday; does that make him good at poker? Of course the object is to win money, and if you aren't winning money you probably have leaks. But the question should not be "how much have you made?" but rather, "how much have you made over a decent sample (100k+) of hands?"

The cool thing about poker is you can test any of the advice given in these threads. With a calculator and PokerStove you can determine whether someone is full of shit or has some sort of a clue.
post #39 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by phreak View Post
ill link part of a post that i thought was great and gave insight to the thoughts of winning players. which description is of a winning player?



as opposed to

If the latter is not a winning player yet, he will be if he continues to work at the game. The former is wasting time putting opponents on a specific hand rather than a range of hands, among other things.
post #40 of 46
If that is Superfluous Man of 2+2 fame, you should listen to what he has to say. Most likely, he is the most accomplished poker player on this forum.
post #41 of 46
I am not Superfluous Man on 2+2, but he is indeed a bad ass. I wish I was as intelligent/good at poker as is he is. Judging by the names I reckon we have the same interest in books, though.
post #42 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by odoreater View Post
Just curious, how many people giving advice in this thread have won any serious money playing poker?

A significantly better question is, how many people giving advice in this thread have good stats in terms of ITM and ROI percentages. I play micros so my total profit is only something like $450 or so, but I still consider myself a solid player because my ITM and ROI are where they should be.
post #43 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by nbouscal View Post
A significantly better question is, how many people giving advice in this thread have good stats in terms of ITM and ROI percentages. I play micros so my total profit is only something like $450 or so, but I still consider myself a solid player because my ITM and ROI are where they should be.

People tend to play differently when playing micros and when playing with real money. So, just because you are doing well playing micros against other people who are also playing micros, doesn't mean you would do just as well playing with real money. Even if you play the same exact way and think that that's a system that works well, other people around you are not going to play the same way.
post #44 of 46
1. Only play premium hands. 2. Notice betting patterns. If somebody makes a raise pre-flop, they probably have a good starting hand. Notice how they bet each time around.
post #45 of 46
Maybe we can take the advice in this thread and make it a little more practical. I'll assume this is a nl cash home game being played for social reasons.

Ranges

A player who plays:
22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q2s+,J2s+,T4s+,94s+,84s+,74s+,64s+,54s,43s,A2o+,K2o+,Q5o+,J7o+,T7o+,97o+,86o+,76o,65o,54o
Will be playing 65% of his starting hands

If he plays :
22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q2s+,J6s+,T6s+,96s+,86s+,76s,65s,54s,A2o+,K5o+,Q7o+,J7o+,T8o+,98o
That's 50% of his starting hands.

And:
44+,A2s+,K4s+,K2s,Q8s+,J8s+,T7s+,97s+,87s,76s,65s,54s,A2o+,K7o+,Q9o+,J9o+,T9o,98o,87o
Is 40% of his starting hands

And:
55+,A2s+,KTs+,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s,98s,87s,76s,A7o+,KQo,QTo+,JTo,T9o,98o,87o,76o
Is about 25% of his starting hands.

If you pay attention to what hands players show down and if you can roughly estimate what percentage of hands they are opening with, you will get an idea of what types of hands your opponents will be playing.


Odds and implied odds.

When on a draw there's an easy way to calculate your pot odds. If you want to know your odds of hitting your draw with 1 card multiply your number of outs (number of cards that will make your hand) by 2. For 2 cards multiply by 4. For instance, with a flush draw you have 9 cards that can improve your hand. So the chances of the next card being of the same suit is about 18% (actually 20.5%) or 4:1. With two cards it would be 36% (36.4% is exact) or about 2:1.

Common Draws

Gut shot draw - 4 outs
Outside Straight draw - 8 outs
Flush draw - 9 outs
Straight flush draw - 15 outs

Your implied odds are trickier to figure out. Implied odds are the money you need to call vs. the money you estimate you can win if you hit your hand. I think it's sufficient to know that in home games your implied odds are quite high (people bet a little and call a lot)


I was planning on writing more but this has ended up long enough and I'm not sure if people care to read much more. Just a few parting thoughts and stats


Some characteristics of a home game:

Players open with a wide range of hands
Players will mostly check and call (or bet and raise small amounts)
They love to play "tricky" (slowplay and bluff)
They will put you on a specific hand
They will offer high implied odds (players will often call to "see what you've got")

Odds of being dealt AA. 220 to 1
Odds of being dealt a pair. 16 to 1
Odds of being dealt AK. 81.9 to 1

Odds if you hold a pair you will flop a set. 7.51 to 1
Odds if you hold no pair you will flop at least 1 pair 2.08 to 1
Odds if you hold 2 suited cards you will flop 2 or more of that suit 7.48 to 1
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