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Will I be ok lifting four days a week? - Page 3

post #31 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Englandmj7
^^ I understand your quip and I did not say that everyone should work out more than 4 days I week, I was simply pointing out that is is ABSOLUTELY not "bad" to work out 4 days a week, which was the poster's question, was it not? And with all due respect, the book is not "what works for Arnold" it is possibly the most definitive work to date as it was done under guidance from several doctors as well as a vast multitude of other bodybuilders. It is not simply what works for them, it shows EVERY exercise under the sun and explains how it works each muscle for each body type; the damn thing weighs 15 lbs.! It leaves no stone unturned.
Alright, you're right. I overreacted. And just to clarify my position: I am not saying that the poster *should* work four days a week, three, five, etc. I'm saying, read a lot, do your homework, and watch your results, and if you stop making progress, keep in mind that you *may* (depending on your own body) need to cut back on your lifting (in terms of frequency, definitely not intensity). So if four days is working for you, then by all means don't change a thing. If three days is working, same thing; if five or six days is working, again, same thing. Just be willing to experiment to find out what works.
Quote:
Is this statement not being a bit hypocritical? Again, whilst you may think I am assuming what works for me or Arnold is what will work for the person who posted the thread, you are doing the same thing by saying that less than 4 days works for you so it should work for him. You are right, each body is different, so your advice to him is no better than mine.
...Which is why I wasn't being hypocritical. I said, "if dusty is one of those for whom four+ days a week of lifting works, then great", and I meant it.
post #32 of 55
Quote:
Alright, you're right. I overreacted. And just to clarify my position: I am not saying that the poster *should* work four days a week, three, five, etc. I'm saying, read a lot, do your homework, and watch your results, and if you stop making progress, keep in mind that you *may* (depending on your own body) need to cut back on your lifting (in terms of frequency, definitely not intensity). So if four days is working for you, then by all means don't change a thing. If three days is working, same thing; if five or six days is working, again, same thing. Just be willing to experiment to find out what works.

I agree. All I was saying is check the book out to help learn what will work for you. Instead of getting several opinions from us, get several opinions from doctors, athletes, etc. through reading up and learning how your body works. In the end, the best way to learn is to go through the motions and learn how your body reacts/recovers. Of course, do this with a thorough knowledge of how to work certain muscles to avoid injury.
post #33 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Englandmj7
blaah...blaah...blaah...mostly bullshit
Welcome to the last decade.It's a good book for how the movements should be done. But following its training regiments will soon get you overtrained. If you have extremely good genetics or use steroids, they may work for you. This is exactly the reason why I would seek knowledge from somewhere else. Excellent site for finding training programs: www.t-nation.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arethusa
I would not recommend targeting specific muscle groups. Aside from this leaving you functionally quite weak, this sort of specific training is also more time consuming. Focusing broadly (eg upper body) is not necessarily a bad idea, but, especially for a beginner, you shouldn't be working single muscles. Hell, even later on, you should work muscle groups and not single muscles.
Totally agreed = You should really emphasize compound movements.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arethusa
Lifting six days a week is a great way to permanently injure yourself and never see any gain.
For most of us, I wholeheartedly agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Green
For more efficient training, go 1 - 2 1/2 times a week and work on complex lifts. Squats, deadlifts, benchpress, pullups, dips, incline shrugs, for example. Prefer free-weights if you can do so safely...in fact, with proper technique, FW's can be safer because they allow natural movement of the body. Some combination of these will provide a more balanced workout that requires less time in the gym than muscle-specific lifts like leg extensions and curls.
Wise words. And true.
post #34 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Englandmj7
blaah...blaah...blaah...mostly bullshit

You have a lovely way of disagreeing with people.....prick



Quote:
Originally Posted by Arethusa
I would not recommend targeting specific muscle groups. Aside from this leaving you functionally quite weak, this sort of specific training is also more time consuming. Focusing broadly (eg upper body) is not necessarily a bad idea, but, especially for a beginner, you shouldn't be working single muscles. Hell, even later on, you should work muscle groups and not single muscles.


Quote:
Totally agreed = You should really emphasize compound movements

He is correct in saying that for beginners you do not necessarily need to target specific muscle groups, but in the long run, when you want great definition and separation, you have to target specific muscle groups. Then again, it depends on the level you intend on achieving. If you generally want "more upper body" strength, etc. then yes, compound movements are beneficial. Again, you are assuming things about what I intend.

In regards to the book. Last decade? It is 10 years old and whilst there may have been advances in machinery/theory since then, it is a feckin' encyclopedia and is great for someone who is just getting into working out. Your logic is like saying that Encyclopedia Britannica 1996 is obsolete, that is entirely unintelligent. You clearly have not read it and don't know much on the subject other than what has worked for you and/or what your trainer has told you. As I said before, I come from a very athletic family, have a brother who works in fitness industry for one of the most elite fitness-oriented organizations in the world (The Marines) and have read a vast multitude of books on health/training. This in my opinion, and virtually everyone else's (other than you) is an excellent book.

Anyways, it really is obnoxious to continually assume what I mean when I say you can work out six days a week. Did I say work biceps 4 out of 6 days? Did I say work your traps 3 days in a row? No, I didn't so stop assuming things.

Quote:
Welcome to the last decade.It's a good book for how the movements should be done. But following its training regiments will soon get you overtrained. If you have extremely good genetics or use steroids, they may work for you. This is exactly the reason why I would seek knowledge from somewhere else.

The book proposes several different workout routines each for beginners, advanced lifters, and competition lifters. It is not a good way to "get you overtrained" you idiot. Some of the routines are for 2-day-a-week workouts!!! It has something for everyone, no matter if you work out a little or alot. Like I said before, you don't know anything about the book and have clearly never even seen it, so keep your uninformed assumptive opinions to yourself.
post #35 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Englandmj7
In regards to the book. Last decade? It is 10 years old and whilst there may have been advances in machinery/theory since then, it is a feckin' encyclopedia and is great for someone who is just getting into working out. You clearly have not read it and don't know much on the subject other than what has worked for you and/or what your trainer has told you.
Wrong. I have the book and have read it too. It's very good book for exercises, old bodybuilding photos and posing. It's training section is however very limited and except genetically elite, very outdated. The 1st version was printed in 1985 btw. I have many training books, some more scientific some not. This book is very good for beginners, containing pretty good exercise descriptions too and training programs that won't wear you out (well they will, but not overwear): Here. And I promise you I have read much,much more than that book about training and bodybuilding in general. When you have read more than Mr. Schwarzenegger's book and widened your perspective, we can continue our discussion then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Englandmj7
The book proposes several different workout routines each for beginner's, advanced lifters, and competition lifters. It is not a good way to "get you overtrained" you idiot. Some of the routines are for 2-day-a-week workouts!!! It has something for everyone, no matter if you work out a little or alot. Like I said before, you don't know anything about the book and have clearly never even seen it, so keep your uninformed assumptive opinions to yourself.
Even basic routines are 6 days a week, split training routines. Since your reading comprehension is (also) so limited, I won't continue this discussion since this is useless. Have fun with your "bible". And it's title is "The New Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding". I would advise thread starter (again) to read some dedicated sites instead of basing your opinions on this thread.
post #36 of 55
Quote:
The 1st version was printed in 1985 btw.

What the hell does that have to do with anything? Hmm. What is this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/068...e=UTF8&s=books

Revised and updated in 1999!

In regards to reading more books? You don't know anything about me to make such assumptions. You "promise" you have read "much much more." How pompous. As I said before, I love fitness and have amassed a vast array on the subject to broaden my perspectives, which I already mentioned.

In the end, I can't expect that someone who can't even read posts would be able to read and offer educated opinions on an area of literature.

Quote:
And it's title is "The New Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding".

Since you are intensely obnoxious and feel the need to point out grammatical errors, I will note that in this instance you would use "its" not "it's" which means "it is" and despite common misconceptions does not imply posession........jerk
post #37 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Englandmj7
In regards to reading more books? You don't know anything about me to make such assumptions. You "promise" you have read "much much more." How pompous. As I said before, I love fitness and have amassed a vast array on the subject to broaden my perspectives, which I already mentioned. In the end, I can't expect that someone who can't even read posts would be able to read and offer educated opinions on an area of literature.
Sure. You should get acquainted with logical fallacies. Especially with "Ad Hominen". And not making assumptions that if someone disagrees with you they couldn't have read the same book as you did. And like I told you, even basic training programs in the book are 6-day workouts. At least in my edition. You must have rare print then. I pointed that error because the word "New" was missing. Without it, you are talking about the 1985 version. And that's more than 20 year old. Ok. I'm sorry, but we can talk again when you have passed puberty. This is like trying to explain rocket science to a monkey.
post #38 of 55
Quote:
Sure. You should get acquainted with logical fallacies. Especially with "Ad Hominen". And not making assumptions that if someone disagrees with you they couldn't have read the same book as you did.

And like I told you, even basic training programs in the book are 6-day workouts. At least in my edition. You must have rare print then.

I pointed that error because the word "New" was missing. Without it, you are talking about the 1985 version. And that's more than 20 year old.

The fact that you get so worked up by internet conversation regarding weightlifting is a testament to your temperament and maturity. I can't see how there is any purpose in continuing a conversation with someone so rude and demeaning. Puberty? How old are you to actually make such an unintelligent and unoriginal joke? Have a great day !

post #39 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Englandmj7
Have a great day !
Thank you. I'm sorry I got worked up. Bad manners on my part.
post #40 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Englandmj7
The fact that you get so worked up by internet conversation regarding weightlifting is a testament to your temperament and maturity. I can't see how there is any purpose in continuing a conversation with someone so rude and demeaning. Puberty? How old are you to actually make such an unintelligent and unoriginal joke? Have a great day !

Of course, you've now edited out the ad hominem bullshit in your posts, but I would remind you still: Pot. Kettle. Black.
post #41 of 55
Quote:
Of course, you've now edited out the ad hominem bullshit in your posts, but I would remind you still: Pot. Kettle. Black.

Hmm. Thanks for chiming in. If you will kindly note that between when Buddy Love posted that comment and when you posted your rude remark there was no editing done on my behalf (look at the edit times smartass). Nice try though.



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If I touch you, will I be infected with your grammar?
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You'd better hope not, or they might start correcting your grammar.
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Heh. Zing.
platano, come back when you're not 12.

All posts from the first page of your profile. Keep your negativity to yourself. If you have nothing to contribute or offer don't post.
post #42 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Englandmj7
hmm, it is funny to see how many people weighed in saying that four days a week is too much. As someone who is of average muscular build (6' , 185 lbs.), and who constantly reads about training/health and works out excessively I can tell you that people who are in very good health often train 5-6 days a week. This is not to say that with only 4 days a week you are not going to get great results.

If you want an excellent guide, in my opinion as well as that of a couple of my buddies who are bodybuilders, Arnold Schwarzenegger's book entitled "Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding" is the most thorough guide to understanding the workout and how to get maximum results for each body type. In general, you should be doing aerobic/cardio exercises 4-5 times a week for roughly 35-45 minutes, this includes brisk walks, bicycling, etc. If you want to see results lifting weights, you should be working out at least 4 times a week alternating muscles worked and generally doing ab workouts every time. My brother is a fitness consultant with the Marines and has been whipping my butt into shape my whole life! This book has helped me immensely. Also, don't feel afraid to approach someone at the gym whose physique you admire to ask them their training regimen, it is a good way to find a great workout partner!


This is not good advice for several reasons. First, Arnold has perfect genetics for bodybuilding so what worked for him won't work for the average person. Second, Arnold used steroids throughout his competition years which made that amount of volume possible. Third, there is no chance a beginner will be able to work out intensely for that amount of time/sets.

Which brings me to overtraining. Overtraining isn't just dependent on how often one works out. Four days a week of concentration curls, tricep kickbacks, crunchs, etc will not tax the body to the same extent as four days a week of barbell squats and deadlifts to failure. Also, muscle soreness (non injury) isn't a good gauge of when to workout. A better gauge is when you stop making rep/weight progress. When that happens, eat more + sleep more and if that doesn't cure it, you are overtraining and need to cut back slightly.
post #43 of 55
Quote:
This is not good advice for several reasons. First, Arnold has perfect genetics for bodybuilding so what worked for him won't work for the average person. Second, Arnold used steroids throughout his competition years which made that amount of volume possible. Third, there is no chance a beginner will be able to work out intensely for that amount of time/sets.
Man, I apologize for sounding like a broken record but for the love of god, I have noted three times that THE BOOK IS NOT ABOUT ARNOLD'S WORKOUT. Please critique my advice all you want and explain why it is incorrect, but for the last time, please stop assuming things about the book. It is a collection of descriptions on virtually every exercise as well as how to perform them. Doctors, athletes, and bodybuilders are cited and quoted continually, not ARNOLD's personal opinions. It is an encyclopedia, not an autobiography or personal workout regimen. That is like trying to say that Webster's dictionary is expressly the views of Noah Webster and should be taken with a grain of salt. Anyways, I apologize for continuing the debate. Otherwise, great advice. Cheers.
post #44 of 55
Dusty... this is for Dusty, right?

Can you work out 4 or even 7 days a week? Maybe. Seems to work for Englandmj7 and others who are physically "gifted" (Not a flame. If that's truely the case, I'm jealous) but not so much for Sausemaster, myself or the average person, for that matter.

Most people find themselves in the the middle of the bell curve: Hardgainers.

To figure out what creates the fastest gains for Dusty takes experimenting and experimenting takes time. Lot's of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Englandmj7
He is correct in saying that for beginners you do not necessarily need to target specific muscle groups, but in the long run, when you want great definition and separation, you have to target specific muscle groups. Then again, it depends on the level you intend on achieving. If you generally want "more upper body" strength, etc. then yes, compound movements are beneficial. Again, you are assuming things about what I intend.

I will go out on a limb here and say that the concesus among those who have researched weight training beyond what their gym's personal trainer (or Men Health and other Muscle Rags) is this. FOR THE BEGINNER... you're most effective and efficient use of time is to use compound movements on a abbrieviated (limited) schedule with an appropriate, healthy diet and plenty of time to recover.

Single muscle group exercises may be appropriate at some point, but not for a beginner or probably even the intermediate level. Hardgainer or otherwise.

Cheers,
D
post #45 of 55
I totally agree.

I do work out 6 times a week but started out only doing 4-5 when I first began about 2 years ago. All I was saying is that if you recover quickly and find that you can handle it, it will not kill you to work out 6 days a week, assumed you know what you are doing.
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