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Journalist gets kicked out of Manhattan restaurant - Page 8

post #106 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopkins_student View Post
You provide an abundance of reasons why tensions might run high, but none that excuse poor behavior. One recurring theme I've found in life is that if you're unable to get good results in your high stress job without yelling or being otherwise uncivilized, you probably aren't very good at your job and shouldn't be doing it.

I was never attempting to excuse it, I was simply trying to mitigate the unfounded assertion that being a chef is a relatively low pressure job with limited consequences of failure.

Unfortunately, I cannot disagree more with the second half of your statement. While it is true that being calm is always the best option, there is (unfortunately for your case), an abundance of evidence as far as highly successful, highly capable people who have a rough manner with their employees. That's not an excuse for it, but it simply does not follow that screaming and being an asshole precludes you from being very, very good at your job.
post #107 of 116
I haven't noticed yelling at better restaurants with open kitchens such as NOPA in S.F.
post #108 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by LabelKing View Post
I haven't noticed yelling at better restaurants with open kitchens such as NOPA in S.F.
Open kitchens tend to be way way way different from closed ones. Although NOPA is a pretty good example of the way a kitchen should be run. They're pretty quiet, not a lot of talking other than the fire orders and the call backs, and the cooks are generally pretty intense and focused.
post #109 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by SField View Post
Almost no one here knows first hand the pressures of any of the jobs being thrown around.

Yes, there are more stressful jobs than being a chef. However, consider a few things;

Restaurant owners are finicky and will fire you at the drop of a hat. For as little as a bad weekend. The constant threat of being badly reviewed, and there are now more ways for this to happen than ever before (with more blogs and food publications than ever). Quality control is difficult, you have to manage everything coming out of your kitchen.

You're always stressed about buying. It's very expensive, you're worried about being wasteful, and getting a halfway decent margin on the product you buy. Then there's the chef owner.

At this point, you've taken out massive personal loans to the point that if the restaurant fails, it's essentially a mortal wound. No, the world won't blow up and you won't kill anyone, but if you consider the kind of capital it takes, how little money you're making for a few years out of the block even if your place is HIGHLY successful, and how regularly and how easily even good restaurants fail, then you have to take it from the mindset of a small business owner who every day is walking a very fine line between staying afloat and dismal failure.

The yelling this is sort of part of the culture. It's a vestige of older times, like how famous conductors yelled at orchestras or other non-essential creative industries have histories like that as well. No the impact of failure is not on the level with some of the things mentioned, but you have to really understand what it takes to consistently put out high quality service and food every single night, while worrying about all the front/back of house stuff that doesn't have to immediately do with the food service at the moment. Yelling is not necessary, but there's a reason it's still there... basically just kitchen culture.

I understand all of that, and I never said there wasn't stress in a restaurant. Every job has stressful aspects. I'm sure librarians get freaked out about funding and inventory and competition from Amazon. But to compare being a librarian with being in a professional kitchen is ridiculous. The magnitude of stress in a library vs a kitchen is huge. Similarly, to act like a restaurant is in any way, shape, or form as stressful as many of the other jobs out there, is just as ridiculous.

1) restaurants are like any small business. Widget stores face heavy competition from either mega stores or the internet or other widget stores in the widget district. They worry about purchasing, they worry about how inventory can be perishable, about shrinkage, about paying staff, about mortgaging themselves to the hilt to keep it running, about the trendy tastes of the consumer. A restaurant is not special in that respect.

2) liability, government oversight, etc are all quite small compared to a variety of industries. A quick google search reveals a few cases where hundreds got sick from a restaurant. One of the facilities that I worked at would have killed thousands and injured tens of thousands very quickly if there was a release. I had to deal with all the oversight both on the state level and the federal level. Even the FBI would drop in for inspections. So, again, in comparison, restaurants are not special nor unique in that sense.
post #110 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milpool View Post
I understand all of that, and I never said there wasn't stress in a restaurant. Every job has stressful aspects. I'm sure librarians get freaked out about funding and inventory and competition from Amazon. But to compare being a librarian with being in a professional kitchen is ridiculous. The magnitude of stress in a library vs a kitchen is huge. Similarly, to act like a restaurant is in any way, shape, or form as stressful as many of the other jobs out there, is just as ridiculous. 1) restaurants are like any small business. Widget stores face heavy competition from either mega stores or the internet or other widget stores in the widget district. They worry about purchasing, they worry about how inventory can be perishable, about shrinkage, about paying staff, about mortgaging themselves to the hilt to keep it running, about the trendy tastes of the consumer. A restaurant is not special in that respect. 2) liability, government oversight, etc are all quite small compared to a variety of industries. A quick google search reveals a few cases where hundreds got sick from a restaurant. One of the facilities that I worked at would have killed thousands and injured tens of thousands very quickly if there was a release. I had to deal with all the oversight both on the state level and the federal level. Even the FBI would drop in for inspections. So, again, in comparison, restaurants are not special nor unique in that sense.
The smart thing would be to stay out of this nonsensical debate, but I'm not that smart. There is a limit to how much stress a person can bear, and there is also a certain amount of stress needed to motivate us, keep us interested in our jobs. Management is about managing that stress level to = 1> Empower your employees to make decisions that will make them successful 2> Challenge them without putting them in a position where they are likely to fail 3> Give them the tools required to be successful So - in your facility, there was less responsibility for that containment on any individual's shoulders - the Gov't provided oversight, you had peers, etc. In an OR, a Dr. will not yell during the operation. You bet your sweet ass if someone does something worthy of being yelled at, it will be done later when there is not a patient on the table. If you cannot convince your workers that the work they are doing matters (and doing that gives them stress) then they will not perform.
post #111 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRon View Post
Yeah.... Bobby Knight, Bill Parcels, Bill Bellicheck, Anna Wintour, George Steinbrenner, Jack Welch all sucked at their jobs...

don't forget Steve Jobs. Notoriously hard.

And not everybody has to raise their voice and yell to be extremely demanding.
post #112 of 116
Perhaps neurological surgery is an outlier. I've had an opportunity to work with several of the best in various subspecialties. The best don't yell.
post #113 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopkins_student View Post
Perhaps neurological surgery is an outlier. I've had an opportunity to work with several of the best in various subspecialties. The best don't yell.
After further consideration, let me clarify my thought on this. These people may very well be assholes who do yell at people, but never at critical times. In my business, the introduction of additional tension at critical times is one of the most efficient ways to produce devastating outcomes. I'm willing to imagine that the same holds true for the previously listed successful individuals.
post #114 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopkins_student View Post
These people may very well be assholes who do yell at people, but never at critical times.

One would hope The sad face is because my mother is very high up in the administration part of a big hospital. Big issues come to her and I often get to hear of them to share the Like the time the operating nurse didn't like the cardiologist. And after the 20 minutes of soap scrub the nurse "oops" and touched the hand of the operating doctor with a firm squeeze. And the doctor, a superbly respected surgeon, proceeded to choke the nurse. In front of the patient right before lights out time.

Yeah, didn't go so well, but a great story to hear. I don't recall the outcome.
post #115 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milpool View Post
I understand all of that, and I never said there wasn't stress in a restaurant. Every job has stressful aspects. I'm sure librarians get freaked out about funding and inventory and competition from Amazon. But to compare being a librarian with being in a professional kitchen is ridiculous. The magnitude of stress in a library vs a kitchen is huge. Similarly, to act like a restaurant is in any way, shape, or form as stressful as many of the other jobs out there, is just as ridiculous. 1) restaurants are like any small business. Widget stores face heavy competition from either mega stores or the internet or other widget stores in the widget district. They worry about purchasing, they worry about how inventory can be perishable, about shrinkage, about paying staff, about mortgaging themselves to the hilt to keep it running, about the trendy tastes of the consumer. A restaurant is not special in that respect. 2) liability, government oversight, etc are all quite small compared to a variety of industries. A quick google search reveals a few cases where hundreds got sick from a restaurant. One of the facilities that I worked at would have killed thousands and injured tens of thousands very quickly if there was a release. I had to deal with all the oversight both on the state level and the federal level. Even the FBI would drop in for inspections. So, again, in comparison, restaurants are not special nor unique in that sense.
Did you even read what I wrote? Jesus christ. Who cares about this comparative nonsense? The point is that it is a stressful job, and that the yelling thing is cultural. That's it. No justification or excuses being made or even agreement with the custom, just an explanation for why there is screaming. Is that difficult for you to understand? Stressful work environment + culture of screaming = chefs yelling at people.
post #116 of 116
As I read the article I thought more that the Journalist was probably acting more like an entitled douche. I do think the cook should have taken a chill pill if he was really making the patrons that uncomfortable with yelling so loud. Sometimes we take little things too seriously.
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