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Spanking - Page 7

post #91 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by cross22 View Post
really? YOU think my statement is hyperbole?

Again, the 16 year old who tells you to fuck off and steals your money will fight you if you try to spank him, which is the situation that we are discussing.

I do.

Also, if a 16 year old tells you to fuck off and steals your money, your failure as a parent occurred years before and you are just reaping the natural consequences of your own bad behavior (see what I did there?)
post #92 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark from Plano View Post
First, if the first time you put them in time out is when they are 4 you are a failure as a parent. Second, sometimes you have to physically keep them there. I've actually stood on the outside of a door to a room where they were in timeout and held the door so they can't get out. Once they get to be 4 they've become programmed to the point where they actually won't leave the room. Don't ask my why it works, it just does.

Besides, if a parent can't physically control a 4 year old, they have no business being a parent and they'll be in deep shit when that kid is 16.

I was merely addressing the post above about timing out a 4 year old boy. I was just pointing out the fact that without any physical restraint, the concept of a time out is more or less pointless. Which then begs the question, instead of having to try and keep your kid in a room for 20 pointless minutes (using physical force), why don't you just spank him once, have him learn his lesson and then get on with life?
post #93 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by cross22 View Post
really? YOU think my statement is hyperbole?

Again, the 16 year old who tells you to fuck off and steals your money will fight you if you try to spank him, which is the situation that we are discussing. If you think otherwise you are fooling yourself.

Um, you are not getting it. The contention was that this mythical 16 year old got to this state because you failed to properly discipline him. I would agree that an out of control 16 year old is capable of this, which is why I would imprint my physical dominance on him from a young age.

You also have not shown the epidemic of beaten parents one would have to assume based on your logic.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark from Plano View Post
I do.

Also, if a 16 year old tells you to fuck off and steals your money, your failure as a parent occurred years before and you are just reaping the natural consequences of your own bad behavior (see what I did there?)

Exactly.

And cross, btw, you should not need to spank a 16 year old. If you do, you've messed up or have a child with a developmental problem.
post #94 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard View Post
Yet another extremely disappointing thread title vs. thread delivery. I clicked here expecting skanks in schoolgirl outfits, and instead I get some ghey debate on child rearing.
Yeah i did too (SF is slipping) but being a parent i got involved ..... i guess you've yet to spread your seed far and wide ---well productively anyway
post #95 of 330
I won't spank my kids.
post #96 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by bBoy JEe View Post
I was merely addressing the post above about timing out a 4 year old boy. I was just pointing out the fact that without any physical restraint, the concept of a time out is more or less pointless. Which then begs the question, instead of having to try and keep your kid in a room for 20 pointless minutes (using physical force), why don't you just spank him once, have him learn his lesson and then get on with life?
Did you block out the memories of how horrible being spanked was? Assuming same results, if you can't be bothered to invest 20 minutes of effort into your child's discipline and spank him simply because it's easier, I don't think you have any business being a parent.
post #97 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
Mark,

Kudos that your time out system worked. I would point out though, there was a physical aspect to it. Picking up the child and placing them there and using your physical presence to enforce the time out. Now, I am not going to say that = spanking. However, I think some folks would say this was the use of physical coercion and lump it in with spanking.

Again, I think what you did was logical and consistent and obviously an appropriate methodology. Just hazarding a guess at what some folks might say.

You might be right.
post #98 of 330
I will use a combination of time outs and spanking. I do not think all situations call for a time out and I am certain some situations could call for a little physical reinforcement. I do not think either system is perfect but used together they can probably be very effective. My parents occasionally would give me ten or fifteen minutes of quiet time in my room and then I would get spanked. Very effective technique..
post #99 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark from Plano View Post
I do. Also, if a 16 year old tells you to fuck off and steals your money, your failure as a parent occurred years before and you are just reaping the natural consequences of your own bad behavior (see what I did there?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
Um, you are not getting it. The contention was that this mythical 16 year old got to this state because you failed to properly discipline him. I would agree that an out of control 16 year old is capable of this, which is why I would imprint my physical dominance on him from a young age. You also have not shown the epidemic of beaten parents one would have to assume based on your logic. Exactly.
ROFL. But that was MY point!!!! If you do your job right from the beginning you can use other methods and they will be as effective as spanking and the kid will respect your authority later on. It was you (as in you people and your sympathizers) who then said the kid is going to tell you to fuck off and steal your money, to which I responded by saying spanking isn't going to help you there because the kid will hit you back.
post #100 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by bBoy JEe View Post
I was merely addressing the post above about timing out a 4 year old boy. I was just pointing out the fact that without any physical restraint, the concept of a time out is more or less pointless. Which then begs the question, instead of having to try and keep your kid in a room for 20 pointless minutes (using physical force), why don't you just spank him once, have him learn his lesson and then get on with life?

Don't know if you've read my posts, but I acknowledge that that's certainly an option. In my case I was spanked as a child. Usually about once every two weeks whether I needed it or not (I was an honor student and a 'good kid' if that tells you anything). In a few cases the spankings I got actually crossed the line, IMO (left welts and bruises, etc.).

My wife was raised in a home without spanking and felt strongly about not spanking. I embraced it mainly because I didn't trust myself not to lose control in moments of anger and take it beyond where it should have gone (a rare moment of introspection).

Again, I'm not dogmatic about it. My only point is that there is no one right way to do it. There are however lots of wrong ways to do it and the wrong ways involve both spanking and not spanking.
post #101 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedalus View Post
Did you block out the memories of how horrible being spanked was? Assuming same results, if you can't be bothered to invest 20 minutes of effort into your child's discipline and spank him simply because it's easier, I don't think you have any business being a parent.

I remember exactly how bad it was to get spanked. It's also probably one the main reasons I didn't turn out to be a mess-up.

Also, spanking in a lot of cases is the harder option. Many times it causes resentment and anger. Many parents who do not want to spank their child is afraid of their child not liking them. I don't care. I'm their parent, not their best friend.
post #102 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark from Plano View Post
Don't know if you've read my posts, but I acknowledge that that's certainly an option. In my case I was spanked as a child. Usually about once every two weeks whether I needed it or not (I was an honor student and a 'good kid' if that tells you anything). In a few cases the spankings I got actually crossed the line, IMO (left welts and bruises, etc.).

My wife was raised in a home without spanking and felt strongly about not spanking. I embraced it mainly because I didn't trust myself not to lose control in moments of anger and take it beyond where it should have gone (a rare moment of introspection).

Again, I'm not dogmatic about it. My only point is that there is no one right way to do it. There are however lots of wrong ways to do it and the wrong ways involve both spanking and not spanking.

Once again, I agree with you. I'm not saying that spanking it the ONLY way to discipline your child. I am saying that disregarding or considering it equivalent to abuse is selling yourself and your child short. That is all.
post #103 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by cross22 View Post
ROFL. But that was MY point!!!! If you do your job right from the beginning you can use other methods and they will be as effective as spanking and the kid will respect your authority later on. It was you (as in you people and your sympathizers) who then said the kid is going to tell you to fuck off and steal your money, to which I responded by saying spanking isn't going to help you there because the kid will hit you back.

Do you not see the inconsistency you are using in an attempt to maintain your position? You say that Pavlovian conditioning will work. Except, of course, when you want to disagree with a certain conditioning stimulus. That pretty much kills your related rebuts right there.
post #104 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by cross22 View Post
ROFL. But that was MY point!!!! If you do your job right from the beginning you can use other methods and they will be as effective as spanking and the kid will respect your authority later on. It was you (as in you people and your sympathizers) who then said the kid is going to tell you to fuck off and steal your money, to which I responded by saying spanking isn't going to help you there because the kid will hit you back.

Well it's really difficult to tell what your point is. It seems that your underlying assumption is that parenting techniques for 4 year olds will be required when they are 16. This is faulty. If you've disciplined them properly as 4 year olds (whether by spanking or by other means) then they won't need spanking at 16. If you beat the shit out of them when they are 4 and make them angry little shits then, yes, you won't be able to control them at 16.

But as Pio already has pointed out, lots of kids get spanked and don't turn out to be criminals. It's not the deciding factor you want to claim it is.
post #105 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
Um, you are not getting it. The contention was that this mythical 16 year old got to this state because you failed to properly discipline him. I would agree that an out of control 16 year old is capable of this, which is why I would imprint my physical dominance on him from a young age.
This is my point right here. If my dad and I were to get in to a fight right now, I might actually win, and I would damn sure hurt him if I lost. It should never come down to that though. When I was 12-14, his threat from from way back was still good because he back it, and could still probably spank me if felt like. When I was 15-16ish and felt impudent, I still knew that even though he couldn't spank me, he would enforce his authority, and whether or not I won, it wouldn't be worth it simply for the sake of running my mouth. Since then I've grown up enough to accept his authority on many thing simply on the basis of him having more experience with whatever it is than I do, though it took 17 years to get to this point. EDIT- I would like to point out that spankings weren't used exclusively. There were times when a timeout did it for me. My parents did things similar to Mark from Plano when it was fitting, and many times it worked. I'm just saying that there were times that it didn't, and a spanking is the only thing that I know of that would for me or my little brother.
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