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Spanking - Page 6

post #76 of 330
Yet another extremely disappointing thread title vs. thread delivery.

I clicked here expecting skanks in schoolgirl outfits, and instead I get some ghey debate on child rearing.
post #77 of 330
Interesting topic. I (we) don't spank our son (he's 6) but I certainly imploy the "thunder of the gods" verbal approach when needed. In fact, I have calmly warned my son that I'm about to start screaming if he can't follow instructions. It scares the hell out of him when it does happen and I feel better about letting him know it's coming if he can't regroup.
post #78 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by cross22 View Post
It really isn't that difficult to understand. I simple terms, I am saying you your 4-year-old will respond to a spanking the same way he responds to a timeout. You are just picking the method that appeals to you more.
no, the 4 year old looks at you blankly, ignores what you said, and goes back to being a precocious little shit when you threaten him with timeout. He cries when you spank him. That's a pretty big difference in response. edit - hey, you deleted your post...
post #79 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
I find this post a little funny, given that you have already shown you a) believe in and b) are a proponent of Pavlov. It also shows you have probably never trained an animal.

If you encode your physical dominance in someone from a young age (or any mammal, like a dog or horse), any normal 16 year old will have huge built in inhibitions from physically challenging you. It will not last forever but hopefully by the time the conditioning effectively wears off, they are a mature adult and physical challenges are not needed.

Actually, if you look at statistics you see that kids who get spanked are far more likely to resort to violence as a form of conflict resolution than kids who don't. And by the time he gets his muscles and his hormones flowing and he is doing well beating people in the street he can't wait to beat you down exactly because of his previous fear.
post #80 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by cross22 View Post
Most responses to my comment are similar to this. I am not saying if your 16 year old comes home high you should take his desert away. I am saying from the beginning one could have used the above methods instead of spanking to discipline kids and teach them their bad behavior will have negative consequences.

If your 16 year old is going to tell you to fuck off and steal your money, he will. And if you try to spank him, he will hit you back. The only choice left for you will be to really get into a brawl with him and physically dominate him. Good luck with that and make sure you stay in good shape.

you do nto spank 10+ you beat them. the brawl you discuss will happen but only if the teen is sure he will win, the fear instilled from strength shown to him continously make that certain. for most teens that time never comes.
post #81 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
Mark, I would agree that in theory "time out" should work. However, sort of like communism, I have yet to see a parental unit that uses it as an effective tool of discipline.

It worked pretty well with our kids. They hated it. There were times where, if they were throwing a fit or whatever, physical punishment would have just made it worse. We'd stick them in a boring room with no toys (physically carrying them there) and put them on notice that they were perfectly welcome to rejoin us once they'd decided to act like a human being again.

In the beginning they'd just throw a bigger fit. They were testing us to see if throwing a bigger fit would cause them to get their way. You've got to learn to ignore their screaming and let them learn that it gets them no where. Eventually they just get tired and calm down. At that point you've got them. The key is the parents.

It doesn't really work past some point. But even at this age we still have a action/consequences system. Works pretty well for the most part. When it doesn't its usually because we've become bad/lazy at implementing it...or just aren't enforcing the proper consequence.

Like I said...I'm not dogmatic about anything. Whatever a parent can do to raise respectful, productive and happy kids is fine by me. My sister has 6 children, five of whom were adopted out of (in some cases) very abusive backgrounds. They spank on a limited basis and it works fine. That's not all they do. They use every tool in the box...timeouts, spanking, loss of priveledges. Their kids are turning out pretty good. I can actually stand to be around them and as old and cranky as I am that's saying something.

In this area, I'm most dogmatic about not being dogmatic. I've seen nearly everything work and I've seen nearly everything fail. I know parents who spank who's kids are little monsters. It's hard fucking work being a parent. Don't let anyone tell you different.
post #82 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark from Plano View Post
It worked pretty well with our kids. They hated it. There were times where, if they were throwing a fit or whatever, physical punishment would have just made it worse. We'd stick them in a boring room with no toys (physically carrying them there) and put them on notice that they were perfectly welcome to rejoin us once they'd decided to act like a human being again.

In the beginning they'd just throw a bigger fit. They were testing us to see if throwing a bigger fit would cause them to get their way. You've got to learn to ignore their screaming and let them learn that it gets them no where. Eventually they just get tired and calm down. At that point you've got them. The key is the parents.

It doesn't really work past some point. But even at this age we still have a action/consequences system. Works pretty well for the most part. When it doesn't its usually because we've become bad/lazy at implementing it...or just aren't enforcing the proper consequence.

Like I said...I'm not dogmatic about anything. Whatever a parent can do to raise respectful, productive and happy kids is fine by me. My sister has 6 children, five of whom were adopted out of (in some cases) very abusive backgrounds. They spank on a limited basis and it works fine. That's not all they do. They use every tool in the box...timeouts, spanking, loss of priveledges. Their kids are turning out pretty good. I can actually stand to be around them and as old and cranky as I am that's saying something.

In this area, I'm most dogmatic about not being dogmatic. I've seen nearly everything work and I've seen nearly everything fail. I know parents who spank who's kids are little monsters. It's hard fucking work being a parent. Don't let anyone tell you different.

post #83 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by cross22 View Post
Actually, if you look at statistics you see that kids who get spanked are far more likely to resort to violence as a form of conflict resolution than kids who don't. And by the time he gets his muscles and his hormones flowing and he is doing well beating people in the street he can't wait to beat you down exactly because of his previous fear.

post #84 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt View Post

You wish.
post #85 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by cross22 View Post
Actually, if you look at statistics you see that kids who get spanked are far more likely to resort to violence as a form of conflict resolution than kids who don't. And by the time he gets his muscles and his hormones flowing and he is doing well beating people in the street he can't wait to beat you down exactly because of his previous fear.

1) I would be interested in a dissection of those "statistics." Of course, links will need to be provided. Please make them good statistics, as I hate taking the time to point out things like confounders and error in sampling.

2) The bolded simply does not jive with reality nor are you thinking clearly. Clearly, not every child that has been spanked is "beating people in the streets." That's just hyperbole and bullshit. Also, what doesn't jive with reality, is the fact that according to the bolded, we would have an epidemic of parents getting beaten by their 16 year olds. I would expect data to confirm this conclusion of yours.

Mark has made some great statements, the best of which, is not to be dogmatic about being dogmatic.
post #86 of 330
How the hell do you time out a 4 year old boy? They don't understand the concept... and also, how do you make sure they stay timed out?

Parent... "Time out"

Kid... time out momentarily... going back to being a brat.

Parent... "More time out!!"

Kid... who cares...

Everytime I think of time out or foing to your room, I'm reminded of the Russell Peters sketch about "somebody gonna get a hurtin!"

Also, just to stir the pot some more. I wonder if the poll would show people of visible minorities voting more for the spanking options than for lack of a better term, middle class white people.

I ask this because in most cultures that are not North American, corporal punishment is pretty much standard.
post #87 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by bBoy JEe View Post
How the hell do you time out a 4 year old boy? They don't understand the concept... and also, how do you make sure they stay timed out?

Parent... "Time out"

Kid... time out momentarily... going back to being a brat.

Parent... "More time out!!"

Kid... who cares...

Everytime I think of time out or foing to your room, I'm reminded of the Russell Peters sketch about "somebody gonna get a hurtin!"

Also, just to stir the pot some more. I wonder if the poll would show people of visible minorities voting more for the spanking options than for lack of a better term, middle class white people.

I ask this because in most cultures that are not North American, corporal punishment is pretty much standard.

First, if the first time you put them in time out is when they are 4 you are a failure as a parent. Second, sometimes you have to physically keep them there. I've actually stood on the outside of a door to a room where they were in timeout and held the door so they can't get out. Once they get to be 4 they've become programmed to the point where they actually won't leave the room. Don't ask my why it works, it just does.

Besides, if a parent can't physically control a 4 year old, they have no business being a parent and they'll be in deep shit when that kid is 16.
post #88 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
1) I would be interested in a dissection of those "statistics." Of course, links will need to be provided. Please make them good statistics, as I hate taking the time to point out things like confounders and error in sampling.

2) The bolded simply does not jive with reality nor are you thinking clearly. Clearly, not every child that has been spanked is "beating people in the streets." That's just hyperbole and bullshit. Also, what doesn't jive with reality, is the fact that according to the bolded, we would have an epidemic of parents getting beaten by their 16 year olds. I would expect data to confirm this conclusion of yours.

I agree with all of this.
post #89 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
I think the concept of "time outs" almost deserves its own poll. Purely anecdotal, but to a child, the ones I see where "time out" is the preferred discipline of choice, you get bratty, misbehaved, spoiled little monsters that have no respect for adults, particularly their parents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
1) I would be interested in a dissection of those "statistics." Of course, links will need to be provided. Please make them good statistics, as I hate taking the time to point out things like confounders and error in sampling. 2) The bolded simply does not jive with reality nor are you thinking clearly. Clearly, not every child that has been spanked is "beating people in the streets." That's just hyperbole and bullshit. Also, what doesn't jive with reality, is the fact that according to the bolded, we would have an epidemic of parents getting beaten by their 16 year olds. I would expect data to confirm this conclusion of yours. Mark has made some great statements, the best of which, is not to be dogmatic about being dogmatic.
really? YOU think my statement is hyperbole? Again, the 16 year old who tells you to fuck off and steals your money will fight you if you try to spank him, which is the situation that we are discussing. If you think otherwise you are fooling yourself.
post #90 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark from Plano View Post
First, if the first time you put them in time out is when they are 4 you are a failure as a parent. Second, sometimes you have to physically keep them there. I've actually stood on the outside of a door to a room where they were in timeout and held the door so they can't get out. Once they get to be 4 they've become programmed to the point where they actually won't leave the room. Don't ask my why it works, it just does.

Besides, if a parent can't physically control a 4 year old, they have no business being a parent and they'll be in deep shit when that kid is 16.

Mark,

Kudos that your time out system worked. I would point out though, there was a physical aspect to it. Picking up the child and placing them there and using your physical presence to enforce the time out. Now, I am not going to say that = spanking. However, I think some folks would say this was the use of physical coercion and lump it in with spanking.

Again, I think what you did was logical and consistent and obviously an appropriate methodology. Just hazarding a guess at what some folks might say.
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