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Cars We Drive! - Page 660

post #9886 of 14737
Cylinder deactivation for big engines at highway cruising speeds makes a lot of sense to me.

But I loathe the idea of stop-start systems. The system in my coworker's 328 is clunky and too noticeable. Also makes much less sense in super cars as you can't hear dat idle exhaust note! Apparently the 2013 Aventador has a stop-start system.. SMH.

On a separate note, I hereby suggest that all BMWBJ members purchase clean E46 M3s in M/T and resell them 30 years from now for $100k.
post #9887 of 14737
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian089 View Post

Next 1-series.

Current gen. 1 series GT, as most 1 series owners already think it's FWD, they have decided to cheap out and go FWD.

Fingers crossed they still do coupes etc. in RWD.
post #9888 of 14737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltskin View Post

Truth be told a 3 series is not very luxurious.  As far as creature comforts are concerned, a TSX with the technology package is a far better value to the non-driving enthusiast as is the A4 which coincidentally also has a 2.0 litre turbocharged engine...except that the A4 makes 210 hp and 258 ft/lbs of torque (at 1500 rpm). 

I have two friends who have TSXs. I've driven them and they are nice cars that I'd recommend to anyone looking in that range, but they are not BMWs. They don't drive like one, and the mechanical packaging is nowhere close to what BMW does.

And luxury isn't measured by the number of electronic gadgets festooning your dashboard. For example, the stiffness of the chassis determines how softly you can tune your suspension while still retaining responsiveness. The stiffer the body of a car, the softer you can set your suspension while still maintaining responsive handling. Why do you think that no one else selling a cheaper car (or for that matter most other cars no matter their price range) than a BMW has managed to achieve the same kind of balance of responsiveness and comfort of a 3 series?
Quote:
I said TSX not RSX.  And what is the point of bringing up brakes when we are discussing engine output?

It was to show that the engine is not the only difference between a Honda and a BMW. The engine is not the only thing that explains their price difference. As I said before, you pay for more in a BMW, whether you need it or not. Good brakes are just one example of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw 06 View Post

For the past 25 years, BMW M3’s have been built around high-revving, naturally-aspirated, race-inspired, Motorsport engines with impressive HP/Liter ratios.

If you need a race pedigree, why not a small displacement turbo diesel? Audi has won many Le Mans and BMW a 24 Hours of Nurburgring with that kind of engine.
post #9889 of 14737
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Y View Post


And luxury isn't measured by the number of electronic gadgets festooning your dashboard. For example, the stiffness of the chassis determines how softly you can tune your suspension while still retaining responsiveness. The stiffer the body of a car, the softer you can set your suspension while still maintaining responsive handling.
 

 

Again a 3 series is not a luxury/luxurious car.  It has never been and god willing it will never will be.  3 series have always had stiff suspension compared to most other cars.  BMW have always provided a very spartan environment and embraced form over function. It is a sporting car, a driver's car and not a luxury car.   Do you recall how long it took them to put cupholders in the 3 series?  Ad2d streaming?  Hell even their choices in stereos are just ok.  Is that what you expect from a "luxury" car?  No leather standard...I have yet to find a luxurious grade of vinyl.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Y View Post

Why do you think that no one else selling a cheaper car (or for that matter most other cars no matter their price range) than a BMW has managed to achieve the same kind of balance of responsiveness and comfort of a 3 series?

 

Actually they are.  Other manufacturers do quite fine in this car class.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Y View Post

It was to show that the engine is not the only difference between a Honda and a BMW. The engine is not the only thing that explains their price difference. As I said before, you pay for more in a BMW, whether you need it or not. Good brakes are just one example of that.
 

 

Your average person does not do trackdays and will not notice any brake fade. They will notice that their $40,000 car is slow as shit. 

 

You also fail to realize that the 320 comes with smaller brakes than the 328.  One might theorize that the brake fade in a 320 could be similar (or *gasp* worse) than in a TSX.  It also comes with a transmission that is rated for lower power.  So much for software upgrades and or larger turbos to add power.  What's the point in adding power if it shreds your tranny?

 

$32k will get you a 180hp stripper 320i.  Who buys those?  Certainly not those looking for "luxury".  By the time you add the sport package, lighting package and the premium package you are at $40,325 and your car still only has 180 hp.  Add nav and an alarm and you are at $43,350 for a 180 hp car

Meanwhile for $40,559 you can get a damn near fully optioned out V6 TSX with 280 hp and 255 ft/lbs torque or $44,170 will get you an A4 Quattro premium plus and damn near fully optioned out

 

A $40,000  Ultimate Driving Machine smoked by a European Honda Accord.  Give me a fukking break

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Y View Post

If you need a race pedigree, why not a small displacement turbo diesel? Audi has won many Le Mans and BMW a 24 Hours of Nurburgring with that kind of engine.

 

So BMW has to emulate Audi to be successful in your eyes?  Really? Let Audi be Audi and let BMW be BMW.  


Edited by Rumpelstiltskin - 5/8/13 at 12:10pm
post #9890 of 14737
I have R8's on the brain these days
post #9891 of 14737
Fuck the R8. Get the 458.
post #9892 of 14737
the V8 R8 vs. the 458 is tilted towards the 458. The V10 R8, I'm not so sure.
post #9893 of 14737
The 458 is a better car in my mind, no question. The thing is, I can't afford the 458 whereas the R8 seems to at least be somewhere within the realm of possibility
post #9894 of 14737
Can you sell the M3 and get the 458?

Also, if you do end up getting an R8, it has to be the V10, IMO.
post #9895 of 14737
I can sell it and get the R8. But then I'd have two 2-seaters which is stupid.
post #9896 of 14737
Can you sell your children and get the 458 and R8? No need for four seats anymore!
post #9897 of 14737
M6 gran coupe getting some flack in the Autoblog comments, I'm sure half of those people haven't seen it in the flesh though. It's easily the best looking 4-door car on the market, and the best looking BMW in ages, I'd say since the E34, or so. I would skip the 'frozen' paint though, and get it in black on black.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/05/08/2014-bmw-m6-gran-coupe-first-drive-review/
post #9898 of 14737
Blog comments are 99% of the time somewhere in between idiotic and trolling. facepalm.gif
post #9899 of 14737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltskin View Post

Again a 3 series is not a luxury/luxurious car.

Compared to a Honda, it is.
Quote:
You also fail to realize that the 320 comes with smaller brakes than the 328.  One might theorize that the brake fade in a 320 could be similar (or *gasp* worse) than in a TSX.  It also comes with a transmission that is rated for lower power.  So much for software upgrades and or larger turbos to add power.  What's the point in adding power if it shreds your tranny?

You have two misconceptions here:

1. That brake sizing predicts brake fade. The Nissan 350Z Track model came with huge Brembo multi-piston brakes, and boiled its fluid and experienced massive brake fade at tracks that are not known to be hard on brakes. And it did this with a measly (by your rarified standards) 300 HP and street tires. Brake venting and brake balance count for a lot. Porsches with similar hardware and going much faster will brake hard all day long without complaining. BMW club racers use the stock floating piston caliper and brake pad sizes but with additional venting, and race pads and fluid, and never worry about their brakes.

2. That the goal of any turbocharged car is to let random shadetree mechanics attach boxes to the computer harness to lie to the engine controller so the car artificially raises its boost. Also, good luck with swapping out the turbo hardware in that engine.
Quote:
Meanwhile for $40,559 you can get a damn near fully optioned out V6 TSX with 280 hp and 255 ft/lbs torque or $44,170 will get you an A4 Quattro premium plus and damn near fully optioned out

A $40,000  Ultimate Driving Machine smoked by a European Honda Accord.  Give me a fukking break

It does not change the fact that the BMW will drive better than either car. Who wants to drive an overpowered FWD car? That makes no sense.
Quote:
So BMW has to emulate Audi to be successful in your eyes?  Really? Let Audi be Audi and let BMW be BMW.  

BMW won the 1998 24 Hours of Nurburgring with a 320d, a turbo diesel 4-cylinder. It was the first diesel victory in the history of the event.
post #9900 of 14737

You win.  The 320 is a great value and makes prodigious power. Oh and BMWs are so much better as well as reliable now that they have forced induction.

 

Happy?

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