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Cars We Drive! - Page 569

post #8521 of 14486
Top Gear Korea whoops
post #8522 of 14486
Top gear Korea? Do they do Kia and Hyundai reviews all year?
post #8523 of 14486
all of the cars they test are riced out
post #8524 of 14486
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Y View Post

And braking is not a strawman. You are not safe if your car cannot stop.

OJFC. When one party keeps saying, "BUT BRAKING! IT'S THE SAME!!!!!111!!" and the other party keeps saying, "Braking is not in question; I agree" it's a fucking straw man.
post #8525 of 14486
I'm going to repost this and highlight at 1:20. The AWD system seems fundamentally misunderstood by some.




Under braking, it is a more effective system because downshifting engine brakes all 4 wheels. And under acceleration its more effective because it accelerates all 4 wheels. While it may not inherently increase cornering speed, to be able to enter a corner later and power down earlier is a huge benefit.

That clip demonstrates that clearly. He was able to outbrake that car easily, take a tighter line thru the corner and accelerate away earlier with more confidence. It's open and shut. AWD is a superior drive-train and by proxy a more effective handling package.
post #8526 of 14486
I was shocked to learn that they have Top Gear Korea. Apparently they have Top Gear for several other countries too. I heard that Top Gear Korea is actually filmed in the US. Not sure if that's the case for the other countries' versions.

Hey, HRoi, what's your opinion of Monte Carlo blue?
post #8527 of 14486
Anyone following this Tesla/New York Times debacle? Elon Musk came out SWINGING today. Very much looking forward to seeing the Times' response.
post #8528 of 14486
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomestar View Post

all of the cars they test are riced out

There's a joke here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenFrog View Post

I was shocked to learn that they have Top Gear Korea. Apparently they have Top Gear for several other countries too. I heard that Top Gear Korea is actually filmed in the US. Not sure if that's the case for the other countries' versions.

Hey, HRoi, what's your opinion of Monte Carlo blue?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear
post #8529 of 14486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo View Post

Anyone following this Tesla/New York Times debacle? Elon Musk came out SWINGING today. Very much looking forward to seeing the Times' response.


Ya, I hear he claims they faked the results of a road trip test.


http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-tesla-blog-responds-to-nyt-2013-2
post #8530 of 14486
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenFrog View Post

Hey, HRoi, what's your opinion of Monte Carlo blue?
Actually never seen it in person. Looks good from the Internet but you know how that goes
post #8531 of 14486
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

I'm going to repost this and highlight at 1:20. The AWD system seems fundamentally misunderstood by some.

Under braking, it is a more effective system because downshifting engine brakes all 4 wheels. And under acceleration its more effective because it accelerates all 4 wheels. While it may not inherently increase cornering speed, to be able to enter a corner later and power down earlier is a huge benefit.

That clip demonstrates that clearly. He was able to outbrake that car easily, take a tighter line thru the corner and accelerate away earlier with more confidence. It's open and shut. AWD is a superior drive-train and by proxy a more effective handling package.

You do not understand what was happening in that video (at 1:34 I assume). First, overtaking in the braking zone is a standard maneuver, and cars in spec series (meaning identical hardware and tires) do it all the time, so to say that it is due to superior braking or handling only is not correct. Once that Audi had his nose on the inside, the outside car could not come in to prevent the pass. If you looked at telemetry from moves like that, you will know that the inside, overtaking car is slower at entry and around the turn. He gains a position because the car being overtaken has his space taken up on the racing line. This is the most common form of passing in racing.

Second, you don't understand how braking or traction works. The brake calipers and/or engine compression causes the wheel to slow down, because kinetic energy is either being converted to heat (brakes) or to work (resisting the motion of the pistons in the engine). The wheel in turn pulls on the tire that's wrapped around it causing the tire to slow down. The tire then pushes against the ground and this is what actually slows the car down. As dah328 says, it's basic physics. In this case, Newton's 3rd law.

The tire cannot push against the ground if it is sliding when it's too cold or too slippery. When it's too cold or too slippery for your tires, your braking distance goes up.

In order to take a tighter line, all 4 tires have to exert a greater force against the ground than when you take a wider line, all else being equal. This is ultimately determined by your tire (most important), your suspension, and your driving skill. An AWD system can try to distribute the engine torque available to all 4 tires in intelligent and useful ways, but it cannot magically create more traction than what the tires already have.
post #8532 of 14486
But it can still use traction that a respective 2wd car can't for higher corner exit speed, all things being equal (which, granted, is never the case). You say awd can't create traction, true, but the limit for which there is none available for acceleration is higher than that of a fwd or rwd car. Not saying awd is inherently better though in real life. It can lead to power understeer like you said and adds a significant amount of weight. It's all about the complete set up.

Speaking of which, this is a great read about some development struggles of the ft86, a very well sorted car.

http://blog.toyota.co.uk/tada-how-toyota-and-subaru-created-the-gt86
post #8533 of 14486
The next person to mention AWD vs 2WD is the biggest, poorest dressed gay who ever lived. Or if that is your sexual preference, then he is the biggest lover of infected lady parts since Hugh Heffner.
post #8534 of 14486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhood View Post

The next person to mention AWD vs 2WD is the biggest, poorest dressed gay who ever lived. Or if that is your sexual preference, then he is the biggest lover of infected lady parts since Hugh Heffner.

AWD vs 2WD.

I don't understand the whining. This discussion is on topic and better than much of the back slapping rah rah man love that goes on in this thread.
post #8535 of 14486
What has been going on in the past couple pages has not been a discussion. It has more or less been a back and forth of "I'm right, and here's why," followed by, "No, you're wrong, and here's why."'

Absolutely no progress has been made on either side because there is massive knowledge asymmetry, in the sense that some people understand physics and others don't.

I can really respect a person who can admit when he/she's wrong. Unfortunately, large egos get in the way.
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