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Cars We Drive! - Page 451

post #6751 of 15719
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Why pick that over the GT500?

Cheaper and handles much better. You really aren't going to need 600+ HP the GT500 provides, the 444hp in the Boss is more than enough especially on the track.

Well, is not this class of car limited to 450 hp on the track? I mean, the track version of the Viper is only 450 horse for this reason whereas the street version is 650 hp.

As far as "need," well, you don't need 444 hp either. A nice 120 hp will get you up to highway speeds quite adequately....I like that thought of a 0-60 run in 3.5 seconds and only have to do a toss from first to second. smile.gif
post #6752 of 15719

the RS5 and new S6 are both on sale now

optioned as I want both are ~75k

the S6 is probably a bit faster, but I like a high rev'ing type of engine (and with the RS5 you don't sacrifice much torque, it has 90% peak from 2.5 to 8k rpm, coupled with a 7 speed it has good drivability/.elasticity)

 

but there is something about a fast 4 door...sleeper

then again, it's only 2 in the car >90% of the time, and the RS5 back seat is good sized

too bad we won't get the new RS4 avant...

 

going to try to find an S6 and RS5 to drive

the RS5 is a good looking car

 

Large%20Image.jpg?p=100222_05:13

post #6753 of 15719
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

problem with the G class AMG's is that it's huge HP stuffed into a dated chassis that wasn't designed for high (or even, on-road) performance to begin with. it's like a brick shot from a cannon

It's also one of the most gorgeous cars currently being produced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Why pick that over the GT500?

The Boss 302 is a far better balanced, better handling car. The GT500 was made with a focus on achieving the best possible acceleration and highest possible top speed. It is very front heavy. By all accounts the Boss is the more rewarding car to drive, with better feel, better balance, and a better sound.

It is not a simple better or worse proposition, despite the price difference. It's a matter what kind of car you want.
post #6754 of 15719

Anyone catching the Pebble Beach Concours.  Really beautiful cars from a bygone era.

post #6755 of 15719
Quote:
Originally Posted by jet View Post

car will go well with your happy socks

 

i'd appreciate less teeth and more tongue 'persian bro.'

 

btw, im still waiting to hear what kind of socks you wear since you think pantherellas are shit.

post #6756 of 15719
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

The Abarth? I'd consider the new turbo first since it's cheaper and practically the same car with about 20 less hp.

 

 

ill have to check it out.  i like all the add-ons they put on the abarth, and it's still quite affordable.  

post #6757 of 15719
post #6758 of 15719
Quote:
Originally Posted by JunyaYamamoto View Post


ill have to check it out.  i like all the add-ons they put on the abarth, and it's still quite affordable.  

The Us Abarth is marketed as the SS in Europe and the general consensus seems to be, that the SS isn't worth the extra money, as you can get better upgrades for less else where.
Edited by Find Finn - 8/20/12 at 4:01am
post #6759 of 15719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur PE View Post


but there is something about a fast 4 door...sleeper
then again, it's only 2 in the car >90% of the time, and the RS5 back seat is good sized

Seriously consider whether this is true. We have the S5 as a family and I can't do more than about 90 minutes in the back seat. I'm not a big guy; 180lb 6'0" but it does get cramped. We did a trip from the UK to Italy and over the three days it got pretty damn squashed. We used to have the A6 (and now have an A8 for distance trips) and the space in that was significant. If you do any distance with people in the back then the A5/S5/RS5 may not be your best call.

Having said that, its a brilliant car in the front, and I drive it more than the A8 or the TT. The boot is also impressive, I've yet to properly fill it up with anything but garden waste.
post #6760 of 15719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur PE View Post

the RS5 and new S6 are both on sale now
optioned as I want both are ~75k
the S6 is probably a bit faster, but I like a high rev'ing type of engine (and with the RS5 you don't sacrifice much torque, it has 90% peak from 2.5 to 8k rpm, coupled with a 7 speed it has good drivability/.elasticity)

but there is something about a fast 4 door...sleeper
then again, it's only 2 in the car >90% of the time, and the RS5 back seat is good sized
too bad we won't get the new RS4 avant...

going to try to find an S6 and RS5 to drive
the RS5 is a good looking car

Large%20Image.jpg?p=100222_05:13

This is the RS5 I'm used to seeing, but apparently the one you'll get in America has the stupid looking facelift front end. I am not a fan of that one, but haven't seen many of those yet. Just the original RS5. It's actually very impressive looking and much more appealing than an E92 M3, though they're around the same price where I live. The flared fenders are very evocative of 80's/90's German classics, you get a bit of VW/Porsche essence out of them when you see an RS5 in traffic. The RS5's also sound pretty good. It definitely makes for a more valuable looking package than the M3 or C63, for sure.
post #6761 of 15719
Grill design is hideous.
post #6762 of 15719
I don't look at the RS5 and think $75k car. But I don't think of the M3 that way either. This type of car has really seemed to outpace inflation for the past couple years. I think the import companies are trying to milk more $ out of the American market, where cars are notoriously cheap relative to the rest of the world. However, I am totally unaware if the M3 has gone up in price in other markets at the same rate.

Porsche seems to have its pricing irregularities too. I don't know about the 991 version of the 911, but with 997.2 you could get a base model for around $85k if I am not mistaken. You can also drop 80k on a Boxster or a Cayman these days, which is just not worth it in my opinion no matter what package it has.

I also find it incredible that Porsche can be so profitable (on relative basis) with far less units sold than Audi, BMW, MB. Seems like car manufacturing would be a low margin, high volume biz. Clearly it's not.

My point being that I think there is a lot of senseless pricing in the Euro-made sportscar market.
post #6763 of 15719
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepitm View Post

Seems like car manufacturing would be a low margin, high volume biz. Clearly it's not.

Think about the cost of production on a C-Class Merc compared to an S-Class Merc. Probably another $15k to make, but with a $50k boost in price. When you get to something like a Boxter - Caymen - 911 the increase in production costs is going to be negligible, but a 911 can sell for and extra $100k.
post #6764 of 15719
Yes, I read on Bloomberg a couple years ago that the 5 series costs a couple % more to make than the 3 series, but sells for a price that is some 50% higher and contributes to a gigantic chunk of BMWs bottom line.
post #6765 of 15719
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepitm View Post

Porsche seems to have its pricing irregularities too. I don't know about the 991 version of the 911, but with 997.2 you could get a base model for around $85k if I am not mistaken. You can also drop 80k on a Boxster or a Cayman these days, which is just not worth it in my opinion no matter what package it has.
I also find it incredible that Porsche can be so profitable (on relative basis) with far less units sold than Audi, BMW, MB. Seems like car manufacturing would be a low margin, high volume biz. Clearly it's not.

There has always been overlaps like these that isn't limited to Porsche. Price a fully-loaded 335i and it'll climb to the same price as an M3, same with Audi and Mercedes. This is where Japanese luxury cars like Lexus and Infiniti becomes a bargain, for the same or more power (albeit not as great when it comes to driving dynamics), a little bit less in price but they are loaded with standard features that are pretty damn reliable too.

Jaguar is taking the same route now as well, match a 535i with the XFs standard features and you'd be paying $10-$15k more easily. Porsche takes the options on their car on a different level though, for the price they charge you really do not get much features. When I priced my Z4 against a similarly optioned Boxster, the Porsche cost ~$12k more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepitm View Post


I also find it incredible that Porsche can be so profitable (on relative basis) with far less units sold than Audi, BMW, MB. Seems like car manufacturing would be a low margin, high volume biz. Clearly it's not.

Porsche has huge profits on each car, the largest on a car per car basis and not to mention it is more difficult to get a discount on a Porsche as well.
Quote:
Porsche Posts $33,200 Average Profit Per Vehicle

Nearly 10x Greater Profit Per Vehicle than BMW

Porsche earlier this week revealed that Porsche, one of the most prestigious names in the automotive industry, is by far the most profitable automaker on a vehicle by vehicle basis. Porsche makes an unheard of €21,799 profit on each car it sells! This isn't to say that Porsche is making €21,799 ($33,198 CAD) straight up on every vehicle it makes, but rather that it earns variable profits, with some more (Cayenne Turbo S) and some less (Boxster). To see just how badly Porsche blows other automakers out of the water, have a look at these figures. BMW makes €2,475 ($3,769 CAD) for each car it sells - a handsome figure, no doubt. Toyota pulls in an average of €1,684 ($2,564 CAD), while Audi makes €1,580 ($2,406 CAD). DaimlerChrysler (including Mercedes-Benz and Smart) makes €708 ($1,078 CAD), and VW makes just €332 ($505 CAD) per vehicle. The study, which looked at the company's finances over 2005-2006 financial year, also revealed that Porsche sold 97,000 units and had a record gain of €2.11 billion ($3.21 bn CAD) before taxes.

No doubt, the development costs of the Cayenne (shared with Volkswagen) and the Cayman (shared with the 911 and Boxster), plus the shared components amongst all of its sports cars has some influence over profitability, but it's not like BMW, Audi and every other manufacturer doesn't share components to take advantage of economies of scale. More precisely, these figures reveal how profitable Porsche's auto operation really is. It's no wonder the brand was in a position to purchase such a large share of Volkswagen Group.

In other Porsche-related news, Motor Authority reports that the almighty 911 is about to receive an update for 2008. Exterior changes - if there are any - will be extremely minor with subtle tweaks here and there. The main update that one should expect to see for the '08 911 is the introduction of the DFI direct fuel injection system that made its debut on the Cayenne sport utility vehicle at Detroit. In The Cayenne, Porsche posted gains in power of between 5 and 25 hp, depending on model, and drops in fuel consumption to the tune of 10-15 percent. These changes aren't exactly monumental we admit, but in the case of the 911, more power is never a bad thing.

The update could also mark the introduction of the long-awaited twin-clutch gearbox for Porsche. For over a year we've been hearing rumours about Porsche preparing a DSG-style twin-clutch gearbox as a successor to its Tiptronic automatic. It would be the perfect time to introduce the gearbox, adding importance to this technical update, not to mention that it’d be the first twin-clutch gearbox to be developed outside of the VAG kingdom. As Volkswagen, Audi and its subsidiaries have proven, the twin-clutch gearbox provides the smoothness of an automatic gearbox while actuating quicker shifts than a regular manual. That's a welcome change for the enthusiast who wants lightning quick performance, plus the convenience and refinement of an automatic. It truly closes the gap between cars with and without clutch pedals, and will be a true benefit to Porsche from a driving perspective, while no doubt increasing its sales and profitability yet further.
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