Cars We Drive!

you guys are making me want to go out and drive both just to give a final judgement on this matter.

On that plasti-dip note although the black looks Really bad the white actually looks great... The matte white car I posted was from a car done fully in plasti-dip. It only cost him about $1k and is removable like the vinyl wrap... I had thought about the vinyl wrap but it runs about $3500 from any reputable shop I have talked to.



Arthur PE said:

the e92 M3, according to many, has a better steering feel than a 997 due to it's balance, the 997 is tail happy and light on the front which does not add to feel

if you want a real 'sports car' a miata is a better choice

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I have not had the 997 on a skidpad, but I've had the E90 M3, my Cayman, regular E90s, E46s, a Miata, and various other cars on the skidpad, and the E90 M3 was numb. It feels like playing a video game where there are layers of things and latency between a driver's action and a reaction from the car. It's not unpredictable but it's just really, really hermetic. The fat-assed steering wheel doesn't help matters any either. In comparison, the Cayman is like putty: I felt like I could make that car do anything I wanted, partly because the car told me exactly what it was going to do well ahead of doing it.

I agree: a Miata is a really great sports car.

there is a reason that ferrari, lambo, BMW M, MB, etc., do not build their hipo cars with a rear engine, in fact only porsche does, and in the newer cars they are moving away from that...they designed the boxer/cayman with mid engine, the GT, their most expensive car, was mid-engined
the reason is physics

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And yet the 911 layout continues to win races year after year when pitted against the M3 and Ferrari. Maybe it's not the greatest layout, but it is not as bad as everyone says it is.



stormin10 said:

On that plasti-dip note although the black looks Really bad the white actually looks great... The matte white car I posted was from a car done fully in plasti-dip. It only cost him about $1k and is removable like the vinyl wrap... I had thought about the vinyl wrap but it runs about $3500 from any reputable shop I have talked to.

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Plasti-dipped and it cost $1k? The one I read from the Audi forums, the guy spent like $40 bucks on a dozen cans of plasti-dip.

The vinyl wrap depends on the size of the vehicle really. A reputable shop that provides warranty could do a small car like the Z4 or Cayman at around $2k.


To end the debate, plain and simple, the Porsche will provide you with the most driver experience. Outside of the Cayman/Boxster and it's mid-engine, which gives you enough confidence (maybe too much) because it is so well balanced, the 911 (S, turbo, GT, etc..) will give the best driving experience because that rear can kick you any time you lose focus. Steering response is also like an extension of the drivers arm. Porsche's steering really is like no other out there, plain and simple. You can't compare an M3 to that, you just can't.

Now end this discussion before more redundant lap times and quarter mile seconds are posted.



A Y said:

I have not had the 997 on a skidpad, but I've had the E90 M3, my Cayman, regular E90s, E46s, a Miata, and various other cars on the skidpad, and the E90 M3 was numb. It feels like playing a video game where there are layers of things and latency between a driver's action and a reaction from the car. It's not unpredictable but it's just really, really hermetic. The fat-assed steering wheel doesn't help matters any either.

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in fairness to the M3, it is terribly overboosted at low speeds, but at higher speeds it firms up pretty nicely. i'm not sure how fast you went on the skidpad.

i actually like the M3 steering - seems apropos for the luxury/sporty car blend that it means to be - but even at its best it is not in the league of the 997. the 997 has razor sharp steering that communicates everything about the road underneath...



HRoi said:

in fairness to the M3, it is terribly overboosted at low speeds, but at higher speeds it firms up pretty nicely. i'm not sure how fast you went on the skidpad.
i actually like the M3 steering - seems apropos for the luxury/sporty car blend that it means to be - but even at its best it is not in the league of the 997. the 997 has razor sharp steering that communicates everything about the road underneath...

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It was in 2nd gear, and not really that fast, maybe 20-30MPH at most. It was an exercise to investigate the effects of weight transfer on the response of the car, so one had to put the car right onto the edge of tire adhesion and hold it there. The overboosting didn't seem that big since the wheel was still relatively heavy feeling. It was the feedback from the wheel which told you things about traction under the front wheels that seemed distant and synthetic. It was really not impressive compared to the previous generation of BMWs.



Arthur PE said:

not a big fan of the matte look, but to each their own
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/Fidde_a4/blandat/flat_black_003.jpg

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That is about halfway there, but still looks stupid - the reason being that it has the exaggerated RS flares to give the matte effect some variation, but it's still slab-sided between the front and back wheels and has a flat hood.

This is what I talk about when I say the SLR, the Aventador pulling flat black off - they have visual movement in basically every panel, there are tons of facets on each piece of the exterior. The SLR really works because it has the gilled sides, the sculpted rockers and greenhouse, the phallic hood and grille. Does it look better in flat black? Probably not, I think the gloss version looks better. The Aventador looks alright in flat black, it has tons of Star Wars-esque planes and a few contrasting gloss details to break up the flat black, but the same - it looks better in gloss. The Murcielago and Gallardo look horrible in flat black, they don't apply here. Way too many singular planes.



An A6 in flat looks like ass. Google image search 'flat black car' and see how ****** it looks on a variety of cars. Modern car designs are pretty slab sided, most look terrible in matte. You will see a horrible looking RR Phantom, LF-A, Enzo, GT-R, Carrera GT, Audis and BMWs - none of them are really working.

There's also a distinction to be made between truly flat black, and satin black, as on the SLR above. Satin works a lot better. Flat looks rattle canned and kills the looks of all these cars.

when i see a flat/matte black car, it immediately reminds me of all those beater cars in the Northeast that never got parked inside or detailed, and had to contend with the elements year round...so they lost the gloss on their paint

It's a horrible phenomenon in the developing Asian countries - $3000 wrap job, stock wheels and suspension - done. Doesn't matter if it's a KIA Optima or a MB C200. It's also gonna inevitably have a neon-colored stuffed toy on the dash or hanging from the mirror or something, completely negating the exterior job. This is what I mean when I say 'Chinatown multi-level carpark'

Even if it's not a full wrap job, it's way too common for people to get a flat black or fake CF wrap on just the roof between the rain gutters to emulate the M3/E class pano roof look. We are living during the time of some of the worst car mods in history.



impolyt_one said:

Even if it's not a full wrap job, it's way too common for people to get a flat black or fake CF wrap on just the roof between the rain gutters to emulate the M3/E class pano roof look. We are living during the time of some of the worst car mods in history.

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Ohh I hate that, there's so many white cars with black roofs around here, it's not even funny.

Just got back from Hong Kong this afternoon incidentally, has changed a lot since I went there last, 2006, pre-world recession, post-mainland China big boom - lots of baller cars sporting the dual HK/Macau and China border crosser plates, like Phantoms and ****. Lots of Ferraris down at the dealer this time, I think I saw about 10 queued outside of the service bay just out on the street waiting for their turn plus 25-30 more in the showroom and already inside the bay. Last time I went it was just a 360 Challenge car on a tow truck and nothing out on the street. Of course, there was a flat black wrapped 430 and a Cali with a black wrapped roof amongst the queue. It really doesn't escape even the best of the cars.

Look out guys a bmw forum mod has spoken.

Matte black just looks like you couldn't afford the whole paint job. Even then it has to be done properly so it doesn't look like the audi.

phlat blak



Arthur PE said:

he's the man...

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it's not only his drivink skills. i mean, the man won pikes peak with a group b "monster" or can you compete a m3 with an audi V8, fond memories.

it's his dry humour. i can listen to this guy for hours.



RFX45 said:

Let
it
go
!

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He won't. Believe me.