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Cars We Drive! - Page 201

post #3001 of 26360
Top Gear review of the GT86 to those interested:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
We first drove Toyota's GT 86 on a racetrack in Japan, but that was inconclusive, as we never got out of third gear. Now we have a better picture, a picture that extends all the way to fourth, fifth and even sixth gears. Lucky us.

And we're closer to home now as well, at the Jarama racetrack near Madrid. Still a closed circuit though, so still no real road driving impressions which is frustrating, but if this thing disappoints on the road I'm prepared to munch on important bits of my own anatomy. Because it's really, really good.

So how different is it to its twin sister, the Subaru BRZ? I spent a whole day in the BRZ at Subaru's test track late last year, so this is where you expect me to say no, to say there are small but definable differences between the Subaru and Toyota. Possibly while scratching my chin and looking thoughtful. But there aren't.

Well, there are supposed to be. Toyota's chief engineer on the GT 86, Tetsuya Tada-san tells me there are tiny changes in the spring and damper settings, and in a chin-scratching phase while on track I thought the GT felt marginally softer. But that could simply have been down to the fact the tyres and brakes were cooked after some Swiss hotfoot had been pummelling it five minutes earlier.

In essence they're identical, and identically excellent. The GT 86 is light on its feet, not dainty exactly, but super accurate and so well balanced. I know it's not especially relevant, but the ease with which this thing lets go at the back end is so refreshing, and even when not arsing about it's just a joyful thing.

Tada-san told me there were three key elements to the car for him, things he (together with his opposite number at Subaru, Toshio Masuda) had to fight for tooth and nail. One was to steer clear of turbocharging, the second was that it should be rear-wheel drive and the final one was to use narrow tyres. I love that. And it's not just that the 215/45 R17's aren't oversized, it's that they're not a sports tyre either. They're Michelin Primacys for heaven's sake - as fitted to the Prius.

So they flex a bit, squeal a lot and aren't too grippy. Tada-san is emphatic that lap times don't matter here, what matters is if the driver gets out with a smile on his face. I am in complete agreement. Yes, it's nice to boast to your mates that your car beats theirs around the ‘Ring, but wouldn't you rather drive a road car that's actually been set-up to drive properly on the road, not the track? I would.

Toyota is maintaining the façade that these are still prototypes, but Tada-san told me that just applies to the interior fixtures and fittings and that the dynamics are finalised. Great, because off the top of my head I can't think of any car that handles more sweetly than this. And it's not slow either. On the main straight at Jarama it hit an indicated 125mph and that flat four engine, red-lined at 7,500rpm, pulls with gusto at the top end. Bit limp lower down, but that's a small price to pay. Great gearbox and lovely, lovely brakes, too.

The price isn't yet finalised due to the yen exchange rate, but Toyota is homing in on £25,000 as the target. Rivals are cited as the Scirocco and Peugeot RCZ, but in truth neither can hold a candle to the GT 86 on the road. Enjoy driving? Then this contest boils down to a battle between this and the Subaru - and you'll make your choice on grounds of badge, dealer location, price and visual tweakery. Me? I'd have the Subaru - the brand is that wee bit cooler - but honestly, this goes down as the best Toyota I've ever driven, and one of the best driving sports cars of the last decade. It's here in June. You know what to do.

The Verdict:
We love the Subaru BRZ. Now we love the Toyota GT 86. One of the very best sports cars around today.
post #3002 of 26360

who's we? the ricer brigade?

if you saw 'pussy' it would be for the first time

we call peopl who slam and tuck cars until they handle poorly and ride like crap morons

and by we, I mean anyone who knows anything about cars...that would exclude you


 

I bet you've been dropped like a pussy more than once 'bro'

Quote:
Originally Posted by jet View Post

Rfx if I were you I'd just stick to stock height there is nothing worse than a pussy drop as we call it like the rs4 above.


 

post #3003 of 26360
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Y View Post

BMW's free maintenance is the absolute minimum to make sure the car is safe and doesn't fall apart. It isn't a great plan if you plan to keep the car for longer than 4 years or 100k miles. You should halve all their intervals if you plan to keep the car, as well as do some things they say is "lifetime," like changing diff and transmission fluids, and the fuel filter.
Porsche maintenance is mostly more expensive for parts, but their parts are significantly more expensive. Some of that is the Porsche tax (due in some part to their lower volumes --- the Cayman aero kit which consists of perhaps 6 linear-feet of skinny plastic is over $3000) --- while some others are due to use of higher-performance parts, eg. the multi-piston brake parts all Porsches use is more expensive than the floating piston brake parts most BMWs use.
yes to both comments. BMW will only pay for oil changes every 12-15,000 miles or so. maybe I'm behind the times but I would never wait that long...I don't daily drive my BMW so 15k is like 2 years between changes (iirc they will do it every year if you ask them, but just trying to prove a point here).

as for Porsche, they are super reliable yes, but maintenance is really expensive. my last service was a bit over $1500 for replacing rear brake pads, brake system service, flush and fill with racing fluid. I have the PCCB's so I'm not sure if the normal steel brakes would cost less
post #3004 of 26360
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneeightyseven View Post

do you like lifted ones? if you do I can throw up some pics of my buddy's F150 with a lift and chunky ass tires. It's pretty badass and the exhaust makes it sound MEEEAAAANN.

don't like it too high, but I can always see these. My buddy has a ford f-150 which I can drive if I want. biggrin.gif

yeah, pics would be nice i still want to see
post #3005 of 26360
Even if BMWs free maintenance program is the minimum upkeep to the vehicle, it is still a good deal considering you have to pay for every maintenance from other cars. It's not like it is an extra charge on top of the vehicles price either, it is good for consumers to be informed of these stuff though but overall, free minimum maintenance > no free maintenance.
post #3006 of 26360

BMW will change oil based on their interval counter, basically avg mpg x 666 gal of fuel, I think max is 15k

so if you avg 20 mpg interval ~ 666 x 20 ~ 13300 miles, if driven hard and 15 mpg ~ 10k miles, so the range 12-15 is a good estimate
 

one thing to consider is the duty service of the vehicle: if a car is driven on the highway for a commute and runs at least a 1/2 hour each way (oil get good and hot, cleans internals and evaporates all moisture/fuel) 13k may not be so bad...if urban stop and go driving, not so good...

BMW's have a large oil capacity (my e46 M3 took 8 qts for a 200 ci engine, RS4 takes 9.5!)) and have a very good cartridge filtration system, pretty sure most have oil coolers also...so oil stays cool, is kept clean and dilution is lower due to volume

 

I'm no tree hugger but extending oil changes from say 5k to 15k saves a ton of oil and filters in landfills, having said that I do 7k in my RS4 (Audi has a fixed interval of 10k) and did 8-9k in my M3, when I pulled the valve covers to adjust the valve lash (unique to the M3 ~25k interval) the valve train was spotless, no sludge, build-up, etc., nice and clean, no wear or marring on the components

 

the issue I have with BMW's schedule is the 'lifetime' tranny and gearbox fluids, I do mine at 50k or so

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post


yes to both comments. BMW will only pay for oil changes every 12-15,000 miles or so. maybe I'm behind the times but I would never wait that long...I don't daily drive my BMW so 15k is like 2 years between changes (iirc they will do it every year if you ask them, but just trying to prove a point here).
as for Porsche, they are super reliable yes, but maintenance is really expensive. my last service was a bit over $1500 for replacing rear brake pads, brake system service, flush and fill with racing fluid. I have the PCCB's so I'm not sure if the normal steel brakes would cost less


 

post #3007 of 26360
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneeightyseven View Post

I fucking love them. hands down best-designed car in that price range/class.

Sure - if you're into boats. The A5/S5 is just way too big... I would most certainly take an M3 over it and most likely a used 997. Fuck I've been on such a Porsche kick lately. I would love a 993 C2S but I think if I was in the position to spend that kind of cash on a weekend car I would probably pussy out and get a 997.

$(KGrHqEOKkUE3rF5q2D7BN8T40bCI!~~_4.JPG
post #3008 of 26360
M3s are far more expensive, and like I said I don't really want to do the BMW route (although I do like M3s very much). Also, why would I ever think about a porsche even used? As has been previously stated, porsche parts are far more expensive, and a used one would have a higher likelihood of:

A) being out of warranty

B) being soon out of warranty

C) needing parts
post #3009 of 26360
Uhh I'm not talking about you. And I fall into the category of people who aren't afraid of well-maintained out-of-warranty cars. I'd rather know the history of my car's previous 40,000 miles or whatever than to roll the dice on a brand new car and not have a clue WTF is going to happen. Not that there's anything wrong with your perspective. The (luxury) used car market needs people like you - it's what makes it soft.
post #3010 of 26360
lol but the conversation came up because I'm looking to buy an A/S5.......?
post #3011 of 26360
Whoa whoa why has pussy drop guy resorted to attacks? Guess I got under his skin on that one, especially considering how stupid he sounds when my car would hand his rs4 its ass with my suspension set-up vs his "tuv" approved springs lol8[1].gif

187, avoid bmws like you said they're a dime a dozen. S5 is nice like a big floaty couch on wheels, drove one awhile back nice car.
post #3012 of 26360
i know youre being sarcastic, but im not saying bmws arent good, i just hate that every 16 year old will be driving along side me in one. its the go to for mediocre-paid soccer moms and kids from moderately-well off families. there are so many where im from its ridiculous. on my street there are 4 alone, and theres probably only 20-30 houses.
post #3013 of 26360
I know exactly what you mean, it's the same shit in socal. Bmws are hondas here.

I'd probably get a zo6 before anything else short of gt3 money but that's what suits my preferences.
post #3014 of 26360
Aesthetically, I prefer a "pussy drop" over a slammed car. I'm not a fan of "aftermarket" looking cars anymore. A slight drop to reduce wheel arch gap is all that's needed in my mind. Then again, that would be a on a daily driver, not any kind of serious track car.
post #3015 of 26360
My 84 325e (90k garage kept miles) was hit again last month. Every time I think I'm going to quit that thing it calls me back....dropping it off for body work today.
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