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Cars We Drive! - Page 1413

post #21181 of 26291
Is that the Tesla?
post #21182 of 26291
News flash: turbos' primary function is to suck

rimshot.gif
post #21183 of 26291
And only fanbois dyno their cars!
post #21184 of 26291
It's some sort of new fangled 4 pole 3 phase induction motor. It is the model I have, but I've never dynoed any car I've had. I would like to see if my Corolla did produce the stated 92 HP 11 years after it was made.

Sadly my parents made me buy it for $800 and gave it to charity and never gave me a cut of the tax credit shog[1].gif

I want some sort of Papa Johns reuniting story.
post #21185 of 26291
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramuman View Post

References? Also V10s don't have primary and secondary inertial balance, unlike I6s and V12s.

Turbo applications are great at maximizing performance and efficiency, but, at the loss of the special exhaust note exhibited by a naturally aspirated V8 / V10 / V12.

I'm not knocking on turbo 6s or 8s by any means. There are many cars with such applications that I would be thrilled to own. But if I want dat exhaust from a V10, my only option is a V10 engine.

I just happen to enjoy the screaming exhaust note of a high-revving V8 / V10. Ain't no turbo six can match dat.
post #21186 of 26291
At any rate, I am not denigrating turbos in an objective sense. Simply stating that I don't prefer them.

I just bought a car with 'teh new turbos' and they seem to still have the things that I've always taken issue with. Turbo lag is still there, and always seems to rear its head at inopportune moments when I drive in normal city driving style, and the intake and exhaust note is uninspiring.

Again - not to say that they aren't more efficient or worse or whatever. I'm happy that they aren't dropping the V10 in the R8, put er that way
post #21187 of 26291
It's really bothersome when you're doing 40, the car has you in your top gear at about 1.2k rpm, and you floor it for some reason and get nothing for several seconds between the tranny needing to downshift and the engine spool up so the boost is high enough. I'll tell you that Volvo XC90 I drove, with the combo of both a supercharger and turbocharger, really seems to overcome this problem quite a bit. Behaves more like an NA, larger displacement engine.
post #21188 of 26291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

It's really bothersome when you're doing 40, the car has you in your top gear at about 1.2k rpm, and you floor it for some reason and get nothing for several seconds between the tranny needing to downshift and the engine spool up so the boost is high enough. I'll tell you that Volvo XC90 I drove, with the combo of both a supercharger and turbocharger, really seems to overcome this problem quite a bit. Behaves more like an NA, larger displacement engine.

 

Doesn't everything have to be overbuilt like woah to get that all to work properly?

post #21189 of 26291
If you have the M4 in Sport Plus throttle, turbo lag is not even a remote issue.

Also, to the GF's point, I really wonder how many people on the forums could, just by sound, tell the difference between a V8 and V10 and V12. One of the best examples is the BMW V10 S85 and it's semi-wet sump baby brother V8 S65. Blindfolded and excluding the exhaust noise, I doubt for all the online posturing, it'd be much more than a coin flip chance of picking either out for nearly everyone.

I'd say the same about my M4's twin turbo I6 and my neighbor's small block C3 V8 Vette - again if you were blindfolded and I didn't give you a list of cars to pick from and excluding the exhaust.

Just saying.
post #21190 of 26291
I really don't care about the exhaust note. In fact, the less I hear it, the happier I am. I just want it to go zoom, on an immediate basis, when I floor it.
post #21191 of 26291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I really don't care about the exhaust note. In fact, the less I hear it, the happier I am. I just want it to go zoom, on an immediate basis, when I floor it.

There is a company that can do that for you. It also has more places to top off than there are gas stations.
post #21192 of 26291
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramuman View Post

I don't get the ripping of turbos. Modern turbo cars, at least the faster ones I've driven, including my DD, have very low reciprocating mass turbos. Turbo lag doesn't really apply these days. Also, the pressure impedance matching on both the intake and exhaust are pretty remarkable. If you have the cars in any sort of aggressive driving mode, they keep the turbos spooled up and mitigate compressor surge and stall amazingly well.

The morons on the internet will still parrot that turbos suck. You should tell that to the people that designed every modern McLaren, the F8x M, Koenigseggs, many of the current Porsches including the 718, and a myriad of other non-italian supercars.

Edit: I even had a 320i loaner for part of a day and was pretty impressed with the engine.

I think its interesting that even Porsche folks are upset about Porsches  moving toward using Turbos in Boxsters, Caymans and 991s.   Although at least with Boxsters and Caymans I suppose some of the issue is because it comes with a switch from a 6 to a 4.  I guess to try to quell the angry masses they have provided buyers of the 718 S models with 350 hp, so that they produce more power than the outgoing Flat 6s.  Still, Porsche has more than 40 years of experience with Turbochargers (on racing and road cars) and their 944 Turbo and Turbo S, were pretty impressive 4 cylinder cars back in their day.  I've driven some older Turbo Porsches (930, 944 Turbo, and Turbo S), and even with some lag they were still so much fun to drive.

 

I think, I've generally avoided Turbos, because there are often increased maintenance issues associated with them such as shorter service intervals on some models, additional parts/complexity, and expectation of a bit more in repairs if its a long term car due to the added heat and pressure.  However, Turbos have in many circumstances turned really good cars into great cars, and are the way of the future.  

 

I think there will always be people lamenting the sound of NA 6s, 8s, 10s, and 12s,  Although, makers of many modern cars have sound enhanced and then piped into the cabin...so perhaps the days of authentically great sounding cars have passed. 

post #21193 of 26291
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramuman View Post

If you have the M4 in Sport Plus throttle, turbo lag is not even a remote issue.

Also, to the GF's point, I really wonder how many people on the forums could, just by sound, tell the difference between a V8 and V10 and V12. One of the best examples is the BMW V10 S85 and it's semi-wet sump baby brother V8 S65. Blindfolded and excluding the exhaust noise, I doubt for all the online posturing, it'd be much more than a coin flip chance of picking either out for nearly everyone.

I'd say the same about my M4's twin turbo I6 and my neighbor's small block C3 V8 Vette - again if you were blindfolded and I didn't give you a list of cars to pick from and excluding the exhaust.

Just saying.

I disagree with this. The difference between the S85 and S65 is unmistakable. I think in general, the V10 and V8 are very easy to distinguish.

V10 vs. V12 is a little trickier.
post #21194 of 26291
Agree. The difference is pretty distinctive, although they both have that cold start death rattle that makes you think someone drained the car of oil while you were sleeping
post #21195 of 26291
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenFrog View Post

I disagree with this. The difference between the S85 and S65 is unmistakable. I think in general, the V10 and V8 are very easy to distinguish.

V10 vs. V12 is a little trickier.

The difference is largely due to the exhaust. If you have just the engines, it's really hard to distinguish. A partner at my previous company had an E60 M5 and I had my E92 M3. The engines themselves sounded fairly similar. One of the biggest clues was the S65's unmistakable firing order on startup. The exhausts were completely worlds apart though.

A lot of the theatrics associated with V10s and V12s comes from the exhausts they're usually paired with. I will admit there is a difference in the engines themselves, but I6s inherently sound very very similar to V12s.

Tell me what this engine is (I6, V8, V10, V12, etc.) - it's on a dyno with no exhaust (jump to 55s in):

https://clyp.it/dhyffc53

and another guess (hump to 20s in; this is with exhaust on a different car):

https://clyp.it/rasiyti1 (jump to 50s in)

and one more (again with exhaust):

https://clyp.it/nmpzafni

and one last one just for fun:

https://clyp.it/dxuphhk3

All of these are about as accurate as possible and from outside the car - the volume isn't balanced though since I was lazy, the last three are on actual cars, the first is on a dyno. All from engine types described in the last 3 pages of this thread and all are 4 very different engines, but all from modern production cars.
Edited by ramuman - 3/12/16 at 11:33am
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