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Cars We Drive! - Page 696

post #10426 of 13490

I thought the 599 was the last v12 with gated shifter?

post #10427 of 13490
It was, but I think the ratio of auto:manual sales was something like 99:1 so actually seeing one is a rarity.
post #10428 of 13490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post

If you don't like driving a cooper, you are driving it wrong, it should be driven like an Italian would drive it.

Hm, so how would an Italian drive it?

post #10429 of 13490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelin View Post

Hm, so how would an Italian drive it?

Low gear high revs and aggressively.
post #10430 of 13490
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnFacconable View Post

The price of carbon fiber will come down eventually and there is already hope on the horizon with Alfa's new 4C. Carbon fiber tub, approx 2000 lbs, 240 hp, hopefully good driving dynamics and Alfa claims this to be more of a real car than the Lotus Elise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

I found the article that led me to believe the Alfa will be $80k plus - it actually speaks to Alfa's struggles to get the cost of CF construction down. I wish we could soon get full CF bodies in sub-$80k cars ...think of the possibilities!


I'm not sure how suited carbon fiber is for road cars.

While the price may come down, its only coming from manufacturing techniques and mass production. I read McLaren made some huge headway in this respect with the latest car.

But to my point, how does a body shop repair it? Its not like fiberglass where you can just layer some on and go. I imagine it would be massively expensive to repair in the event of a crash in part because it disintegrates on impact. On a $300k car which is a novelty to begin with, fine, you have money to burn, but a regular family car? I can't see it.
post #10431 of 13490
I think carbon fiber may be repairable just like fiberglass - depends on the damage you're addressing but can be as simple as mixing some epoxy, soaking some weave and applying. Sand, repeat, etc. I'm far from an expert, so happy to hear from someone who's read or seen otherwise.

I believe the experience in the bicycle frame world is that you can repair CF frames where you would normally have to toss aluminum frames. I don't know what the answer is for CF tubs in automobiles - I know some manufacturers are bolting on aluminum subframes (Lamborghini with the Aventador comes to mind - see below for picture) which is one way to address the potential problem. Also given the strength of the material, the tubs may be effectively damage-proof (because other parts would break first). It wouldn't surprise me if it turns out that repairing CF tubs is labor expensive but possible, whereas currently cars with bent steel frames can sometimes be bent back into shape, sometimes cut and rewelded and sometimes scrapped. Aluminum repair can be even more difficult because by the time it's been bent there could be irreparable fatigue.

Bottom line we are very early in the carbon fiber era, but I see no reason to believe that within the next 5-10 years the expertise will have been built up to the point that car repair is even easier with CF than any other material.

post #10432 of 13490
If CF breaks, the weave is compromised - I don't see how patching of CF will be possible. I'm seeing a future where CF comes down in price and all of those parts are tossed for new replacements.
post #10433 of 13490
Current obsession: 993 Targa w/ RS spoiler. With prices on C2S' and C4S' getting completely out of hand at this point, NB 993's seem to possess the most value (if you can even use the word 'value' in the same sentence as '993').

post #10434 of 13490
Quote:
Originally Posted by impolyt_one View Post

If CF breaks, the weave is compromised - I don't see how patching of CF will be possible. I'm seeing a future where CF comes down in price and all of those parts are tossed for new replacements.

To UF's point, I agree with this. The weave pattern to CF is critical to its structural integrity. I don't see it being easily repaired, especially in a stress bearing situation. In fact, I would question liability in a load bearing part.

It may be that these parts are tossed, but we are talking 1 to 2 decades before that becomes cost effective. For now, we have supercars and race cars using CF monocoques. Anything downstream is cost prohibitive.

This is an interesting place where intrusive governments can be helpful. A mandate would make a massive difference in bringing these costs down. But the lobbyists at Alcoa and US Steel would fuck it up. I'd personally love to transition from an aluminum space frame to one made of carbon. Unfortunately, its unrealistic right now.
post #10435 of 13490
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawlin View Post

Current obsession: 993 Targa w/ RS spoiler. With prices on C2S' and C4S' getting completely out of hand at this point, NB 993's seem to possess the most value (if you can even use the word 'value' in the same sentence as '993').


Best looking 911 ever. Obsessed too. I drove one last summer, I must admit it was a bit eh, but the car's shape made up for it. This car will only increase in value. If I am not mistaken the '93 is the last trad oil cooled version. A convertible in yellow would be golden.
post #10436 of 13490
How much interest does the US have in steel anymore anyway? I thought it was all Japanese as of several decades ago
post #10437 of 13490
NB Targa w/ Turbo front bumper icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

post #10438 of 13490
saw a real nice clean burgundy 993 on black wheels w/polished lip, had du roll down window so i could give him props...he looked like he should be brewing beer at home in portland, was rather dismayed at his appearance
post #10439 of 13490
Saw a dude drive a turbo last winter after it had snowed in minus 10c. icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #10440 of 13490
Man that 911 is beautiful.

Do you guys know of any brand that sells matchbox sized audi a4, merc c and Alfa Romeo 159 models?

They're probably about as close to owning one as I'm going to get for a while frown.gif
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