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Are European Women more classy than American Women? - Page 5

post #61 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomasso
I've noticed that the people who fit the description of being "Classy" (elegant, poised, courteous, well spoken, etc) don't seem to have that particular word in their vocabulary.

This is what I attempted to point out earlier. You, LabelKing and I appear to be among the few here who recognize this. It's a shibboleth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LabelKing
His Babbitt was very scathing on those who aspire to class. In fact, he dedicated it to Edith Wharton.

This occasioned a wry inward chuckle (WIC) as distinct from a LOL.

I believe Jay Gatsby embodies the very ethos of "classy."
post #62 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthmover
I don't quite understand this antagonism and mild anger bubbling underneath. Classy is a word. It's roots are in the word "Class." So yes, there is some element of class to being classy. That said, if you read what I am saying carefully, I was stating clearly that I was making generalizations and using imperfect heuristics to get at an imperfect definition.

The latter type of person is not classy [again, my personal definition]. I don't know where you get the presumption that I believe this to the very core of my heart, but you are wrong. Since people are not mindreaders we have to use what we can observe to come to conclusions about people. Sure, it's very possible that without knowing a person's home life, I may think a "polished" (another loaded word) person to be classy, but that judgment always comes with the caveat that if he acts like a cad, I can rescind and change my characterization of the person. I'm pretty sure think cheating on wife and neglect of kids is not nice.

That said, classy does imply some amount of polish to a person. I can't see why a person who does physical labor can't be classy [in fact, the first example you used describe my parents in our tougher days to a T, and they are definitely "classy"]. But it doesn't mean that a person can be classy while being ill-mannered (even if out of ignorance rather than boorishness), and to me personally, without showing some curiosity about the world they live in. There are no class boundaries that prevent a person from reading good books or newspapers (yes, it's harder, sometimes really hard if your situation in life made it impossible for you to learn to read in the first place) or to put it in most basic form, observing human life as it comes. As Emily Post once said, "Manners are a sensitive awareness of the feelings of others. If you have that awareness, you have good manners, no matter what fork you use."

The reason I placed a premium on reading good books is that it says volumes (zing!) about a person's natural curiosity of their world (and other worlds). Books give insight into how people think, shows you what was proper historically, and offer other tidbits of knowledge that help make a polished person. Anti-intellectualism is a strong cultural phenomenon in America, and in its extreme, the anti-intellectualism reaches as far as people not caring to observe the people around them, and if people don't care about others... I doubt they'll be a classy person. That said, I know how imperfect this rubric is; I just think it's as good a shortcut as any.

In case you were curious, I do not find you classy, based on your internet persona. Perhaps you shouldn't take giant leaps to conclusions. I do not think myself classy either, if it comforts you any.

Ah, I think you misunderstood my post and took it the wrong way - a danger with internet message boards. My point was only that the concept of "classy" is so ambiguous and the criteria in the original post, whether American women or European are "more classy" that it is impossible to have any kind of intelligent discussion on the subject. As other posters have pointed out, everybody seems to assign different criteria to what classy is, when perhaps there are no criteria. Perhaps you are right when you say "I know it when I see it." A person can be "classy" or not for a million different reasons. And to generalize that to a continent's entire female population is just absurd.

All I was trying to point out is that your criteria - reading to wit - is just as arbitary as anybody else's criteria and I was doing that by taking your criteria to a logical conclusion, albeit one that was very far from what you had originally said.

The bottom line is that you can't define class by reading, by money, by intellect, by beauty, by promiscuity, or by any objective criteria. I've lived in a few slums in my life and even there people would say about somebody, "that guy's no good, he's got no class."

I don't really consider myself classy either, but I do consider myself lucky. I consider myself lucky that that I didn't have any of the things holding me back throughout my life that end up making some people in the world, in the eyes of many on this forum, as lacking "class." I think that people overlook the fact that had their circumstances been different that they might be the ones digging the ditches, burying the dead bodies, changing the garbage, or serving time in prison. And when people start jumping on their high horses and judging those they consider "without class" I feel some kind of duty from down inside to come to their defense. If that makes me "not classy" or "not a gentleman" (I've been called both), then so be it.
post #63 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by odoreater
Ah, I think you misunderstood my post and took it the wrong way - a danger with internet message boards. My point was only that the concept of "classy" is so ambiguous and the criteria in the original post, whether American women or European are "more classy" that it is impossible to have any kind of intelligent discussion on the subject. As other posters have pointed out, everybody seems to assign different criteria to what classy is, when perhaps there are no criteria. Perhaps you are right when you say "I know it when I see it." A person can be "classy" or not for a million different reasons. And to generalize that to a continent's entire female population is just absurd.

Yes, I think I did misinterpret rather harshly. Of course, that makes me fulfill one of my own reasons for not being classy. Gives me prescience at least.

Quote:
All I was trying to point out is that your criteria - reading to wit - is just as arbitary as anybody else's criteria and I was doing that by taking your criteria to a logical conclusion, albeit one that was very far from what you had originally said.

The bottom line is that you can't define class by reading, by money, by intellect, by beauty, by promiscuity, or by any objective criteria. I've lived in a few slums in my life and even there people would say about somebody, "that guy's no good, he's got no class."

I don't really consider myself classy either, but I do consider myself lucky. I consider myself lucky that that I didn't have any of the things holding me back throughout my life that end up making some people in the world, in the eyes of many on this forum, as lacking "class." I think that people overlook the fact that had their circumstances been different that they might be the ones digging the ditches, burying the dead bodies, changing the garbage, or serving time in prison. And when people start jumping on their high horses and judging those they consider "without class" I feel some kind of duty from down inside to come to their defense. If that makes me "not classy" or "not a gentleman" (I've been called both), then so be it.

I think the true meaning of classy belongs in a subset of words that we used to articulate into words what a good person is. It's certainly an inexact science, but I think most people recognize "good" people as good people, especially if a person gets to know a person fairly well, and in that sense, people do know what classy means intuitively.
post #64 of 88
Man- this thread is so classic style forum.
post #65 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTGuy
Man- this thread is so classic style forum.

how do you define "classic?"
post #66 of 88
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stax
how do you define "classic?"


Yes, people who dress classic don't have that word in their vocabulary In fact, people who are anything don't have the word (even though it's in the dictionary) to describe them because that's not clas..I mean elega.. I mean....damn I need to quote a historical or literary icon with a trite one liner to make my points

I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
post #67 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soph
Yes, people who dress classic don't have that word in their vocabulary In fact, people who are anything don't have the word (even though it's in the dictionary) to describe them because that's not clas..I mean elega.. I mean....damn I need to quote a historical or literary icon with a trite one liner to make my points

I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

The road to Classy is paved with plebian intentions.
post #68 of 88
Here is what I aspire to:

[IF]

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you
But make allowance for their doubting too,
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings--nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much,
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!

--Rudyard Kipling
post #69 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by muelleran
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!



So, if a woman is truly 'classy'... she's a man?
post #70 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirk
So, if a woman is truly 'classy'... she's a man?
post #71 of 88
- you'll be a human being, my child!
post #72 of 88
This thread = not classy
post #73 of 88
We should write a styleforum 'If':

If you can tell an Oxxford from a Haspel
Because you've read Antongiavanni's book;
And always turn a deaf ear to the rascal
Who claims "you're gonna love the way you look";

If you know well which silhouettes best suit you
And always choose a tasteful shirt and tie
And if the office hottie always shoots you
That look that says "I'm done with AmJack guys"...



next?
post #74 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirk
We should write a styleforum 'If':

If you can tell an Oxxford from a Haspel
Because you've read Antongiavanni's book;
And always turn a deaf ear to the rascal
Who claims "you're gonna love the way you look";

If you know well which silhouettes best suit you
And always choose a tasteful shirt and tie
And if the office hottie always shoots you
That look that says "I'm done with AmJack guys"...



next?
Dude, I'm not even going to try - I can't touch that. Nice job!
post #75 of 88
Euro wins over the dollar big time.... but then again it all depends on who is consuming...
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