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Best players Currently in the NBA - Page 4

post #46 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern-Nupe View Post
The arguement can be made, about the Suns prior to Nash joining the team, and the success they've had since.

Prior to Nash arrival, the Suns were already widely considered as a powerhouse-to-be, with Shawn Marion + Amare + (then)Starbury. Barbosa and Joe Johnson were still learning the ropes, Boris Diaw and Raja Bell were nowhere to be found. What's your argument again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kever
The Suns were mediocre at best without Nash, and that's with their allstars, whereas the Lakers actually pulled off some wins without Kobe

The first part of your statement, as I just proved, is ludicrous. As for the other half, well, those wins came before Luke Walton and a few others went down with injury. Their game all have regressed significantly since. I mean, Amare, Matrix, Bell, Barbosa, Kurt Thomas, and even James Jones are better (and far more consistent) than all of Kobe's teammates with the possible exception of Lamar Odom.
post #47 of 169
That's funny, because I can't recall the Suns in the more recent years being considered a powerhouse prior to Nash's arrival. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Suns didn't even make it to the Playoffs in 04, yet went to the Westcoast conference semi-finals in 05 with the addition of Nash. I must also add, Marbury was also a pointguard, how come the team wasn't as dominate under his control (8th seed does not equal dominance). Like I said earlier, I believe Kobe is the most skilled player in the NBA, but he cannot control the game the same as Nash. The Sun's offense is set up to run off of Nash's skillset, to include his ability to penetrate, knock down the open 2 or 3, and create shots for all the other players around him.


If it was up to me, I would love to see the Lakers beat the Suns, just to shut people up about Kobe not knowing how to be a teamplayer.
post #48 of 169
Prior to Nash arrival, the Suns were already widely considered as a powerhouse-to-be, with Shawn Marion + Amare + (then)Starbury. Barbosa and Joe Johnson were still learning the ropes, Boris Diaw and Raja Bell were nowhere to be found. What's your argument again?




I will agree with you on one thing, Lamar Odom, is fairly underrated. I admit he does have some heatlth issues, but when healthy, can score, rebound, and has no problems passing the ball.
post #49 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern-Nupe View Post
Prior to Nash arrival, the Suns were already widely considered as a powerhouse-to-be, with Shawn Marion + Amare + (then)Starbury. Barbosa and Joe Johnson were still learning the ropes, Boris Diaw and Raja Bell were nowhere to be found. What's your argument again?




I will agree with you on one thing, Lamar Odom, is fairly underrated. I admit he does have some heatlth issues, but when healthy, can score, rebound, and has no problems passing the ball.

But I think you're ignoring the real knock on Odom, which is that he lacks the killer instinct or whatever it is that distinguishes very talented players from great players. Yes, he can rebound, score, pass, and handle the ball. He's a great athlete. At times -- last night for example -- he can look great. But for years he's been one of those guys where the whole seems to be less than the sum of his parts. A guy with all those skills should be an impact player far more consistently than Lamar has been in his career, even allowing for injury issues.
post #50 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post
But I think you're ignoring the real knock on Odom, which is that he lacks the killer instinct or whatever it is that distinguishes very talented players from great players. Yes, he can rebound, score, pass, and handle the ball. He's a great athlete. At times -- last night for example -- he can look great. But for years he's been one of those guys where the whole seems to be less than the sum of his parts. A guy with all those skills should be an impact player far more consistently than Lamar has been in his career, even allowing for injury issues.

+1

If he was never traded to the Lakers, his career might have gone a different direction and developed into an alpha-dog next to the less intimidating Dwayne Wade. But as it is, he's an incredibly skilled player without the assertiveness and confidence to ever be more than a borderline all-star. He's like a poor man's KG ability-wise, without any of KG's aggression. Sometimes he looks unbelievable going to the basket at 6' 10" and making it look easy, and sometimes he looks very unsure of himself on the floor.
post #51 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern-Nupe View Post
That's funny, because I can't recall the Suns in the more recent years being considered a powerhouse prior to Nash's arrival. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Suns didn't even make it to the Playoffs in 04, yet went to the Westcoast conference semi-finals in 05 with the addition of Nash.

I called them powerhouse-to-be and I stand by that. Remember, with Amare months removed from his ROTY campaign when he outperformed the much heralded Yao Ming, the Matrix being the perennial All Star/stat stuffer that he is, the Suns were fairly loaded by any standards. 2005 also happened to be when Joe Johnson blossomed into a bona fide player, so it is extremely short-sighted to give Nash all the credit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Souther-Nupe
I must also add, Marbury was also a pointguard, how come the team wasn't as dominate under his control (8th seed does not equal dominance). Like I said earlier, I believe Kobe is the most skilled player in the NBA, but he cannot control the game the same as Nash. The Sun's offense is set up to run off of Nash's skillset, to include his ability to penetrate, knock down the open 2 or 3, and create shots for all the other players around him.

Another factor is playing style. Starbury excels at half-court basketball, aka walking up the court, while Nash's forte obviously is run-and-gun. The latter gells much better with Mike D'Antoni's vision and the existing roster. I believe had Nash signed with any other team, he wouldn't have achieved quite the success he had with the Suns, not even close.
post #52 of 169
Nash (only 23 assists today) must've read some of the comments here.

koji
post #53 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by whacked View Post
I called them powerhouse-to-be and I stand by that. Remember, with Amare months removed from his ROTY campaign when he outperformed the much heralded Yao Ming, the Matrix being the perennial All Star/stat stuffer that he is, the Suns were fairly loaded by any standards. 2005 also happened to be when Joe Johnson blossomed into a bona fide player, so it is extremely short-sighted to give Nash all the credit.



Another factor is playing style. Starbury excels at half-court basketball, aka walking up the court, while Nash's forte obviously is run-and-gun. The latter gells much better with Mike D'Antoni's vision and the existing roster. I believe had Nash signed with any other team, he wouldn't have achieved quite the success he had with the Suns, not even close.
I will agree on Nash's playing style. On some teams Nash may not be as productive, I'm a Rockets fan, but I know for sure he wouldn't fit, just becuase Yao isn't quick enough to get in position to score. However I still love Steves play, to be honest, I'm more of Kidd fan(I just wish he had better shooting ability).

To Thracazaag,

Nash's and Stoudamire's stats were ridiculous, Nash with 23 assists and Stoudamire with 21 rebounds. Amare has changed the way I viewed him, I still think he is somewhat limited defensively on aconsistant basis, but the guy is a great scorer. I was hoping that the Lakers could take the series, but I son't think it's going to happen.
post #54 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post
But I think you're ignoring the real knock on Odom, which is that he lacks the killer instinct or whatever it is that distinguishes very talented players from great players. Yes, he can rebound, score, pass, and handle the ball. He's a great athlete. At times -- last night for example -- he can look great. But for years he's been one of those guys where the whole seems to be less than the sum of his parts. A guy with all those skills should be an impact player far more consistently than Lamar has been in his career, even allowing for injury issues.
I guess it depends on how you look at him, I never really thought of Odom as a Superstar, I always saw him as a good role player, much like Al Harrington or Larry Hughes. He can be inconsistant, and has injury issues, but I would love to have him on the Rocket's (I'm a Rockets fan) rather than Juwan Howard, however at this point I feel thet're more in need of a new pointguard.
post #55 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern-Nupe View Post
I guess it depends on how you look at him, I never really thought of Odom as a Superstar, I always saw him as a good role player, much like Al Harrington or Larry Hughes. He can be inconsistant, and has injury issues, but I would love to have him on the Rocket's (I'm a Rockets fan) rather than Juwan Howard, however at this point I feel thet're more in need of a new pointguard.
I think Odom would be a better 3rd option than a 2nd option, especially with the Lakers (and I agree he'd be good for the Rockets). Which is why the Lakers will never crack the top 4 in the West with their current roster. I'm just praying that the Lakers somehow trade for Kevin Garnett next year. Jordan Farmar (who's going to be a nice player for them I think), Kobe, Luke Walton, KG, and Andrew Bynum would be a top 3 team in the west a few years I think. All of those players are a great fit for the triangle, assuming Phil Jackson sticks around that long. Kobe and KG are 2 of the best players of the last 10 year and they're both wasting the absolute prime of their careers on mediocre teams. And KG is absolutely MADE to play next to someone like Kobe.
post #56 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian278 View Post
I think Odom would be a better 3rd option than a 2nd option, especially with the Lakers (and I agree he'd be good for the Rockets). Which is why the Lakers will never crack the top 4 in the West with their current roster. I'm just praying that the Lakers somehow trade for Kevin Garnett next year. Jordan Farmar (who's going to be a nice player for them I think), Kobe, Luke Walton, KG, and Andrew Bynum would be a top 3 team in the west a few years I think. All of those players are a great fit for the triangle, assuming Phil Jackson sticks around that long. Kobe and KG are 2 of the best players of the last 10 year and they're both wasting the absolute prime of their careers on mediocre teams. And KG is absolutely MADE to play next to someone like Kobe.
KG would be a great fit for the Lakers, Garnett is probably the most athletic big-man in the game, and when it's all said and done, may even be one of the best 5 power forwards ever. He is absolutely wasting his career in Minnesotta, every year they promise to put people around him, and after a while it just gets old.
post #57 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern-Nupe View Post
I will agree on Nash's playing style. On some teams Nash may not be as productive, I'm a Rockets fan, but I know for sure he wouldn't fit, just becuase Yao isn't quick enough to get in position to score. However I still love Steves play, to be honest, I'm more of Kidd fan(I just wish he had better shooting ability).

To Thracazaag,

Nash's and Stoudamire's stats were ridiculous, Nash with 23 assists and Stoudamire with 21 rebounds. Amare has changed the way I viewed him, I still think he is somewhat limited defensively on aconsistant basis, but the guy is a great scorer. I was hoping that the Lakers could take the series, but I son't think it's going to happen.

I think Stoudamire has finally fully recovered from his injury--that spells bad news for everyone in the Western conference.

koji
post #58 of 169
Thread Starter 
Lebron James FTW
post #59 of 169
Lebron James and Dwight Howard and Kobe
post #60 of 169
How could anyone take the 2009 Nash over a 2009 C. Paul? Today's Nash plays likes he's fifty years old.
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