Should I still tip 15%?

There's nothing worse than going out to eat with a douchebag who constantly whines about imperfections in service. Eating out should not be work for you or the people at your table.

Originally Posted by imschatz

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If I'm spending $100+ for dinner .. I expect:

1) Solid knowledge of the wine/drinks menu, with good recommendations.
2) Knowledge of the specials, both food and drinks. Nothing pisses me off more then not being told about drink specials.
3) My water glass to never be empty.
4) Appetizers to arrive quickly, and entre's to arrive shortly after appetizers are done.
5) Not being asked 100 times how everything is. Once when the appetizers are done, and once a few minutes after the entre's arrive.
6) Cloth napkins.

If you get all that .. 15-20% tip easily. With near perfect service, I'll also go out of my way to tip in cash so the waiter/waitress can pocket it.

Some of these are okay points, others not really, and some don't go far enough.

For instance, with cloth napkins? The places that have both black and white ones show a little extra thought, IMO. As to the appys, I don't want my entree to arrive as they're clearing the plates. If I had a cocktail with the appys, this is the interlude where the wine should be presented. Also, it's nice to chat in between courses, no?

However, any one of these points is not enough to ruin what I can consider "good service."

FWIW, what type of fine dining places have "drink specials"? I mean, I can think of all kinds of places with drink specials but I sure as hell don't expect the same place to have staff that's knowledgeable about the wine list. In fact, I usually don't expect such a place to have a list beyond "The red wine" and "the white wine."

YMMV.

Originally Posted by milosz

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Go *************.

If eating out is really this much of an ordeal for you, learn to cook.
You pay the price on the menu for the food. You tip for service. If I'm tipping more then 10% I'm getting above average service. All those things I listed .. are part of a waiters/waitresses job. Nothing more.

ps: the water glass thing was a bit of an over exaggeration. I don't like asking for water, makes me feel cheap. Most restaurants here just leave a pitcher of water on the table and that suffices.

Originally Posted by imschatz

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You pay the price on the menu for the food. You tip for service. If I'm tipping more then 10% I'm getting above average service. All those things I listed .. are part of a waiters/waitresses job. Nothing more.

ps: the water glass thing was a bit of an over exaggeration. I don't like asking for water, makes me feel cheap. Most restaurants here just leave a pitcher of water on the table and that suffices.

Order two bottles of mineral water, small timer. Specify a glass with ice & lime.

If you're going to be a pretentious douche, do it correctly.

Originally Posted by SkinnyGoomba

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Order two bottles of mineral water, small timer. Specify a glass with ice & lime.

If you're going to be a pretentious douche, do it correctly.
Mineral water is gross .. and we use lemon here, not lime.

Originally Posted by SkinnyGoomba

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Order two bottles of mineral water, small timer. Specify a glass with ice & lime.

If you're going to be a pretentious douche, do it correctly.

Nicely done.

Originally Posted by imschatz

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Mineral water is gross .. and we use lemon here, not lime.

Really? Pellegrino is "gross"?

I tip 20% pretty much everywhere regardless of the size of the bill. BUT, I agree with metrostyles, it's more out of custom and habit than anything else. In fact, what the OP is saying is actually very logical. Even when I go to expensive restaurants, I don't drink wine so I don't give a crap if the waiter knows everything there is to know about wine pairings, and I rarely ask the waiter for any help with what to order. So, since I don't partake in this supposed special knowledge that the waiter has, should I be tipping him less? And this whole business about there being more wait staff at an expensive restaurant so they have to split the tip among more people - even if that's true, that means each individual person is doing less work and therefore deserves less money per table.

Saying you tip everyone 20% is fine, but don't kid yourself into thinking that waiters at more expensive restaurants some how deserve what becomes a huge disparity in the amount of tip they get.

^ Agree.

Not to mention, you'd be surprised as to the amount some wait staff rack up from tips alone..****.

Originally Posted by imschatz

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You pay the price on the menu for the food. You tip for service. If I'm tipping more then 10% I'm getting above average service. All those things I listed .. are part of a waiters/waitresses job. Nothing more.

ps: the water glass thing was a bit of an over exaggeration. I don't like asking for water, makes me feel cheap. Most restaurants here just leave a pitcher of water on the table and that suffices.

what kind of restaurants do you go to that leave pitchers of water on the table? also, i would be embarrassed to leave a 10% tip, unless the service was just that bad.

Originally Posted by ihambrecht

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what kind of restaurants do you go to that leave pitchers of water on the table? also, i would be embarrassed to leave a 10% tip, unless the service was just that bad.
Lot's do. We went to one of the nicest restaruants here after my convocation. $30-40/plate, and a 5 page wine menu, ranging from $50/bottle to hundreds. They had really funky water pitchers, was actually quite impressed with the water pitchers. Mind you .. there was a group of 10 of us or so, and all wanted water, so I donno if this a regular thing that they would do for a smaller group or not.

Originally Posted by imschatz

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Lot's do. We went to one of the nicest restaruants here after my convocation. $30-40/plate, and a 5 page wine menu, ranging from $50/bottle to hundreds. They had really funky water pitchers, was actually quite impressed with the water pitchers. Mind you .. there was a group of 10 of us or so, and all wanted water, so I donno if this a regular thing that they would do for a smaller group or not.
i have never had the experience, however i could see this being done if the pitchers were funky, which is pretty cool. the only places i have been to that keep pitchers of water on the table are family style italian restaurants, however my experience of restaurants have been pretty limited to long island and some of manhattan.

Originally Posted by milosz

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Go *************.

If eating out is really this much of an ordeal for you, learn to cook.


BEAUTIFULLY and succinctly stated.


So, it's the waiter's responsibility to select whether or not the establishment uses cloth or paper napkins?!?!

And it is not possible that a cook in the kitchen makes a mistake causing the entree to be a bit delayed? Or maybe someone in the party ordered a well-done steak and it takes a long time?

Holy God, you mother must have potty trained you when you were six weeks old.

Originally Posted by odoreater

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Saying you tip everyone 20% is fine, but don't kid yourself into thinking that waiters at more expensive restaurants some how deserve what becomes a huge disparity in the amount of tip they get.

Yes they do. In a fine dining establishment a waiter makes their money on quality of service, mastering the pacing of the meal and having extensive food and wine knowledge. In a casual restaurant they make their money on quantity of service, slinging hash and getting people in and out as fast as possible.

I would love to have you dine with important clients at a fine restaurant first with an excellent, well-trained waiter and then go back the next day and have the same meal with a ****** waiter and then see the difference.

Originally Posted by MrDaniels

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BEAUTIFULLY and succinctly stated.


So, it's the waiter's responsibility to select whether or not the establishment uses cloth or paper napkins?!?!

And it is not possible that a cook in the kitchen makes a mistake causing the entree to be a bit delayed? Or maybe someone in the party ordered a well-done steak and it takes a long time?

Holy God, you mother must have potty trained you when you were six weeks old.
1) Paper napkins is just a pet peeve of mine. Not saying paper napkins have a significant effect on the tip I give, but I base my tip on the experience in the restaraunt; and paper napkins bother me.

2) Not saying that isn't possible. But a long wait between appetizers and entrees (especially when the appetizers were good) is a problem here. I've gone out and had 25-30 minute waits between entree's and appetizers without so much as a word from the staff. With delay's like that, the appetizer becomes a tease.

I donno. I don't tip a fixed percentage. I tip based on how I'm feeling when I leave the place. Most of the time .. 15-20% .. sometimes closer to 40% .. the odd time .. less then 5%. As a waitor/waitress .. if you want a 20%+ tip, nail all the points I listed. If you want 0% tip, miss all those points.

Originally Posted by MrDaniels

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Yes they do. In a fine dining establishment a waiter makes their money on quality of service, mastering the pacing of the meal and having extensive food and wine knowledge. In a casual restaurant they make their money on quantity of service, slinging hash and getting people in and out as fast as possible. I would love to have you dine with important clients at a fine restaurant first with an excellent, well-trained waiter and then go back the next day and have the same meal with a ****** waiter and then see the difference.
So I'll ask again, if I don't partake in the waiter's knowledge of food and wine, should I just tip him less?