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Possible for thin guys to bulk and tone simulatenously?

post #1 of 21
4/10/10 at 7:53pm
Thread Starter 
I've always been thin but relatively muscular (5'11', 160lbs). I lift, run and swim dutifully, and eat enough protein. I've always wondered if it's possible for me to get leaner without loosing any of my bulk... the dilemma is I'm afraid if I alter my diet to less fat-content, I'll eat less than I normally would and I'd lose what little bulk I have, even if I did end up getting more cut. Anyone know a solution?

I tried to diet a few years back and never noticed a difference; part of the problem was I had a plate of broccoli and I really didn't want to eat it, so I just ended up not doing it, unsure if I was getting enough calories or not. Are some of us just stuck with a little extra fat on the exterior of our muscles? (I still have a six pac (certainly no gut), it's just not rippling or sharply defined).
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post #2 of 21
4/10/10 at 7:59pm
Just keep lifting heavy and eat a bit less(make sure to keep enough protein). Some might say to curtail long periods of cardio, for fear that it's too catabolic, but I doubt whatever you are doing will have a substantial effect.
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post #3 of 21
4/10/10 at 8:00pm
Also, the thread title doesnt seem like what you are asking, you are asking if you can cut and maintain lean mass, which the clear answer is yes, especially if you arent cutting very much.
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post #4 of 21
4/10/10 at 8:03pm
short answer: no. At at 160 lbs why would you want to get any smaller?

My advise, get some muscles on them bones. It will make you look "sharper" more than cuttingout more fat. Since you prob have a high metabolism bust ass with a bulk then a cut of the excess would work better, IMO.
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post #5 of 21
4/10/10 at 8:57pm
Yes. Lift heavy and eat clean to keep your BF low and in check
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post #6 of 21
4/10/10 at 9:22pm
At 5'11" and 160lbs, you are at right in the sweet spot of the BMI scale. What does that? It means that you're at a weight that body considers ideal, and it will fight you for every fraction of an ounce of fat that you try to lose. You would be better off gaining 10-15lbs and then cutting. Without going into too much detail, you most likely need to make significant changes to your diet (more protein+ less carbs is worthless advice without also providing guidance as to how, when, and to what extent) and your workout routine. Based on the comment that you run and swim dutifully, you are likely doing too much cardio, not too little. (if you need "proof" just compare endurance athletes such as marathon runners or cyclists (too much cardio) to athletes that need explosive movements such as sprinters or football players)
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post #7 of 21
4/10/10 at 9:35pm
Focus on not maintaining/ not gaining fat but increasing muscle mass. This means over time your BF will drop, eat heathily don't starve yourself. If you creep up in weight, cut for a week or two. It's much easier to maintain weight than it is to baloon yourself up, then try to drop fat.
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post #8 of 21
4/10/10 at 9:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedLantern View Post
Also, the thread title doesnt seem like what you are asking, you are asking if you can cut and maintain lean mass, which the clear answer is yes, especially if you arent cutting very much.
Basically all I want to do is cut the little fat I have on my body now, without losing any of the bulk I currently have. My fear is, because I'm thin, that if I cut any of my current calorie consumption (which is often protein along with fat), then I'll lose my bulk. Like I said, I tried going on a low-fat diet without diminishing protein, but I found it was really hard to tell if I was eating enough, which I have a tendency to do if the food isn't delicious. I'm not sure if guys as thin as me ever have hope of adding bulk without the use of creatine or something. I do 3 sets of 6 reps on all the major lifts twice a week... for 10 years now (since I was 15).
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedLantern View Post
Some might say to curtail long periods of cardio, for fear that it's too catabolic, but I doubt whatever you are doing will have a substantial effect.
I've heard that too- 'you shouldn't run and lift because the cardio will detract from the mass building', which I don't think makes any sense... I run for a total of 20 minutes up a steep mountain near my house, then walk down, every other day... it's just a quad exercise, so how could it possible effect my pecs or biceps?
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post #9 of 21
4/10/10 at 10:04pm
The short answer is yes it's possible to do both. But it's much quicker and easier to do a bulk phase, then a cut phase. Of course right now if you reduce your calories you will lose your bulk (i.e. fat) and look skinnier, although you might be more ripped, but honestly 155 lbs at 5'11" is pretty damned skinny. So the solution is to bulk up a bit with weights, then lose the fat. As for bulking you can do it without creatine or anything fancy (although protein shakes help you get in the calories). It's just about eating a lot more than you are used to. All you need to do is get out of the "I don't want to eat too much because I might get fat" mentality. If you workout you will get hungry, so just trust your gut (pun intended) when it comes to eating. If you just ate supper, but are still hungry, eat again.
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post #10 of 21
4/10/10 at 10:08pm
The problem with running and lifting is it's really hard to get enough calories in. If you run a calorie deficit, the weights are a waste of time because your body has no fuel to grow. So even though its a quad exercise, it effects your pecs or biceps by burning calories that you could otherwise use for muscle growth. (Hence why cutting and bulking is so difficult, because you need to have perfect balance between eating enough for your muscles to grow, but not too much so you put on fat.)
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post #11 of 21
4/10/10 at 10:40pm
I think you will find that you are in a difficult spot if I am reading the description of yourself accurately. You state you have a six pack, are looking for increased definition, and don't want to lose any muscle?

It might depend a bit on what your body fat percentage is. With a six pack, it sounds like you are pretty close to your bottom BF% while maintaining your strength. Maybe you just want to do it for shits and giggles or maybe you aren't nearly as lean as you are suggesting, but you might need to ask yourself if what you are imagining is realistic.

How often do you manage to increase the weight you are lifting? If you physically can't manage to increase your lifts, you are probably near your bottom. If you can, than you should. My hunch is you are coasting in the gym.

If you are near your bottom, you could try just getting a bit more sun. A nice tan will increase your definition. Avoiding refined carbs will also help you drop a bit of water.

Search this forum for a thread called something like "ask a fitness model."
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post #12 of 21
4/10/10 at 11:45pm
No, it is physiologically impossible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time (and boy do people hate to hear that). You will gain both if your body is in metabolic state (energy surplus) and you will lose both if in catabolic state (energy deficit). You can follow the usual guidelines to improve the ratio of gain/loss to your favor. As a rule of thumb, you can count on losing 3:1 fat:muscle or gaining muscle:fat if you get your diet and exercise regiment right. There is no guarantee you can get a more defined 6 pack even if you lose some fat. A natural well defined 6 pack is as much genetic as it is fitness. EDIT: I just saw you have been lifting for 10 years. Assuming you didn't completely mess up your diet or lifting regiment in those years, you are probably close to your genetic maximum muscle gain. You will gain very slowly after 10 years of lifting, no matter how heavy you go. How much weight have you put on in these 10 years? Did you go from 125-130 to 160?
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post #13 of 21
4/11/10 at 1:55am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cross22 View Post
EDIT: I just saw you have been lifting for 10 years. Assuming you didn't completely mess up your diet or lifting regiment in those years, you are probably close to your genetic maximum muscle gain. You will gain very slowly after 10 years of lifting, no matter how heavy you go. How much weight have you put on in these 10 years? Did you go from 125-130 to 160?
Once i stopped growing, I probably went from about 155 to my current which is probably 160-165ish (I don't weigh myself much). I really don't fluctuate that much if I stop lifting for a few months. I had a period in Cambodia where I didn't exercise for like 5 months straight (too bloody hot and no gyms), and I honestly don't think I looked much different then when I went on my protein-shake/ creatine phase a while back (though it's hard to self-critique because changes are slow, and I'm not devoted enough to do measurements). My bro's who a doc said the med community still isn't sure about creatine, and that my body might get dependent on it. Sometimes when I'm annoyed by my slim state, I think who cares and I might as well start taking creatine again (who cares if I end up 'whithering' to a 155 when I'm 40 cuz I took too much creatine)... though I'm also worried some of the aqua-mass creatine puts on my muscles might transfer to my face or chin, giving me a fat face. Anyway, all my lifting is conservative (basic pushes and pulls with free weights) at 3 sets of 6-8 reps to exhaustion (I'm not coasting db_ggmm, and I actually set a few records at my hs for my weight range).
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post #14 of 21
4/11/10 at 2:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Svenn View Post
I've always been thin but relatively muscular (5'11', 160lbs). I lift, run and swim dutifully, and eat enough protein. I've always wondered if it's possible for me to get leaner without loosing any of my bulk... the dilemma is I'm afraid if I alter my diet to less fat-content, I'll eat less than I normally would and I'd lose what little bulk I have, even if I did end up getting more cut. Anyone know a solution?

I tried to diet a few years back and never noticed a difference; part of the problem was I had a plate of broccoli and I really didn't want to eat it, so I just ended up not doing it, unsure if I was getting enough calories or not. Are some of us just stuck with a little extra fat on the exterior of our muscles? (I still have a six pac (certainly no gut), it's just not rippling or sharply defined).

i second the advice of people saying to put on a few pounds. you seem anxious to take fat off now, but wait... simply put, the longer you bulk, the better your cut will be. so set a day or a goal (eg. bodyweight bench press at 180lb) and then cut once you've hit that point. i guarantee you that you'll look better and be stronger and more fit and probably even have better dieting habits than if you didnt.

if you'd rather keep the weight gain gradual and proportionate with bf%, look into ketogenic-style diets.

ps. eat your fucking broccoli
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post #15 of 21
4/11/10 at 3:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Svenn View Post
Anyway, all my lifting is conservative (basic pushes and pulls with free weights) at 3 sets of 6-8 reps to exhaustion (I'm not coasting db_ggmm, and I actually set a few records at my hs for my weight range).

You sound long out of high school with 10 yrs lifting, yo.
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