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Margutti 7-fold ties...

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Anyone out there in Internet-Land tried a Margutti tie? I'm interested in trying a 7-fold tie from this page - specifically, the red one right at the bottom - but I'd like to know if the 60 euro price tag means it's rubbish or not. (The pictures aren't particularly detailed, unfortunately.) Thanks...
post #2 of 13
i haven't tried them yet, but i emailed the company a while ago to ask about their shipping price to the u.s. it's thirty-something dollars plus a customs fee. this was for one shirt, so i'd contact them about shipping first if i were you. let us know if you go for it.
post #3 of 13
7-fold tells you only the construction method, but it does not tell you much, like quality of silk, lining thickness, etc., and it's very hard to tell for a maker we don't know well, for example, if it is a Turnbull & Asser, we will know immediately that the tie is of a heavier silk and the colours will come out brightly appear. Also, judging from the small (..) pictures, maybe it is around 3.5" to 3.75"? I wish sellers could tell us more about what they are selling~.... Don't obsess over one thing, look at the complete package. I don't think you choose a car purely because of one element like leather seats, right?
post #4 of 13
A 7-fold is not supposed to have a lining such as is found in standard(4-fold?) neckties. Margutti has very good shirt fabrics, and I imagine that Margutti has access to very fine domestic(Italian) silks, which it could buy for less than foreign firms could. I ordered a shirt and matching boxers from Margutti last year. I definitely like the boxers, though I actually prefer boxer briefs(even $6 boxer briefs by Hanes) to boxers...but I suppose that is a style/fit opinion, not pertinent to quality. The shirt was 93.16 Euros, the boxers 33.56 and the shipping/duties were 23.24[b] I doubt that the tie is poor quality just because of its low price relative to Robert Talbott, Kiton, etc. The silk is probably Italian - domestic for Margutti, so no duties. Margutti products are probably not exported very much, and the seamsters/seamstresses' labor is less expensive than that in the USA.
post #5 of 13
Quote:
A 7-fold is not supposed to have a lining such as is found in standard(4-fold?) neckties.  
Most Italian-made seven fold ties (including Kiton seven folds) have a lining. Talbott seven folds do not. I understand that Talbott ties also have a different folding pattern from most Italian-made ones.
post #6 of 13
None of the 7-fold ties that I have seen, even the Italian 7-folds, have an internal lining. That is the purpose of the 7 folds, to act as a lining in lieu of a (usually wool, in fine 4-fold ties) lining. What you're referring to is called the "tipping." Many high-end neckties are "self-tipped," meaning that the same fabric used for the front of the tie is used to finish both the wide and narrow ends of the back of the tie. The Talbott 7-folds are not tipped; the ends are simply hemmed, and I really like the look.
post #7 of 13
Quote:
None of the 7-fold ties that I have seen, even the Italian 7-folds, have an internal lining.  That is the purpose of the 7 folds, to act as a lining in lieu of a (usually wool, in fine 4-fold ties) lining.  What you're referring to is called the "tipping."  Many high-end neckties are "self-tipped," meaning that the same fabric used for the front of the tie is used to finish both the wide and narrow ends of the back of the tie.
Look more carefully. Kiton seven folds are lined. Zegna seven folds are lined. I would suspect that Borrelli and most other Italian brands of seven folds are also lined. There's tipping, it's true, but there's also lining. Edit: See Chuck's comments about the two different styles of seven fold ties on the Ask Andy forum.
post #8 of 13
I'm going to have to get my hands on a Carlo Franco 7-fold. Chuck's comments on how much it actually costs to manufacture a tie intrigue me as to how much money I've spent on ties that were nowhere close to being worth their retail price.
post #9 of 13
Quote:
I'm going to have to get my hands on a Carlo Franco 7-fold. Chuck's comments on how much it actually costs to manufacture a tie intrigue me as to how much money I've spent on ties that were nowhere close to being worth their retail price.
I recently purchased one from ebay, and was disappointed. The silk wasn't as nice as I thought it was going to be. Stick with Talbott, Borrelli, Kiton, etc.
post #10 of 13
Quote:
I'm going to have to get my hands on a Carlo Franco 7-fold. Chuck's comments on how much it actually costs to manufacture a tie intrigue me as to how much money I've spent on ties that were nowhere close to being worth their retail price.
Chuck's a great guy to work with, and his ties are very nice. I'm eagerly waiting for his Talbott-style ties to come in. In fairness, the markup on just about every piece of men's clothing is pretty astronomical. It's not just ties.
post #11 of 13
Quote:
Look more carefully. Kiton seven folds are lined. Zegna seven folds are lined. I would suspect that Borrelli and most other Italian brands of seven folds are also lined. There's tipping, it's true, but there's also lining.
I remember how shocked I was when I first discovered this - I was selling a Bvlgari seven-fold tie and I noticed that some of the stitching had come loose in the middle of the tie. Which allowed me to see the lining. That was quite a surprise.
post #12 of 13
I will be sure to look for the lining in the Kiton and Bulgari ties. So that's why some 7-folds are tipped, to conceal the fact that they have a lining. I really like the Talbott 7-folds, sans lining and without tipping. It's funny that 7-folds have lining, because the function(so they say) of the 7 folds is to act as a lining. I suppose that the lining of the 7-folds is significantly lighter than that in standard 4-folds, but....
post #13 of 13
I just stumbled across this post. FWIW - I asked Thracozaag to contact me for a full refund or exchange as I was unaware he was disappointed and guarantee everything 100% - including return shipping if I am aware of any issue. Thracozaag - please email me for a refund or exchange and let me know why you did not like the silk - I need to know which tie you are talking about since each has a different wieght, weave, heft etcetera and you must have ordered under a different name? To the question of which style 7-fold? There are essentially two types. What is most often sold these days is actually a double-4-fold. What that means is that the silk is cut into two pieces and sewn together over a thin canvas (like most ties have). The silk is then folded symmetrically 4 times over that lining. Advantage - you get a tie that holds shape better than a traditional 7-fold as the lining holds the shape and the extra folds give it weight and thickness. We make this style as our "Como" collection. If you want a very heavy, luxurious tie this is a great tie. The second type, what we call our Campagna collection is a true 7 fold. In this tie the silk is laid out, the edges folded under and sewn and then the tie is hand-folded toward the center 7 times, the resulting seam is hand saddle-stitched and a hand-done slip knot at the skinny end is left sticking out. The latter method is a LOT more expensive to make in all honesty which is why many folks do the double-4 as a seven-fold - it is a fabulous tie that i could teach you to make in a few hours. The true seven fold? That one really takes an expert since the folds are asymmetrical. The lady who supervises the production of ours yells at me in italian and thunks me with her thimble whenever I ask stupid questions or attempt to suggest ways to speed up the process.... the process is s-l-o-w and thimbles REALLY hurt when properly used as a weapon so I butt out and let her do it her way. 16 patterns in 6 months isn't tooo long is it? Which type is better? Matter of taste frankly. If you are reallly into craftsmanship and handwork the true 7-fold is just fun to look at. The Double-4 with a thin lining holds shape better and gets high marks for the 'Squeeze test'. The Double-4 also lets me do some things with the weave that is hard to do with the silks we use for the true 7-fold. I am a TERRIBLE judge here because my bias is based on different things than yours would be - for every 10 designs I do I have 4 or 5 that the weavers just shake thier heads and say "Choo no can do thees." and some simply can't be done thin enough for the double 4 (a knot bigger than your head is never good) just as some can't be done thick enough to really work in the true 7-fold. Bottom line? Either tie blows the #$%&#$ out of the usual acetate-backed cheap POS tie that we usually see. For what it is worth - I make ties because I enjoy it. I absolutely welcome suggestions and help in making them better with each generation. So... my request/challenge for the Cravattologists of this forum is simple - write to me and tell me what you WANT to see in a tie. Frankly I don't care what it costs. Our methodology is simple - find the best materials and methods and use them - make up the cost by having a low overhead. So... if you want to have a great tie at a reasonable price and DON'T tell me what ya want I can't help you. I try to be careful in a forum setting not to be pushing my stuff - I don't participate in forums to make sales but to get ideas... so here's an opportunity. if you were making a tie - tell me how you would make it? Tell me what kind of silk you like? Tell me which construction makes you feel warm and fuzzy? Sorry to ramble but this is important to me - someone who barges into a forum and says 'buy my stuff pleeeeeeeeese" is more obnoxious than the telemarketer who interrupts me when I am reading to my 8-year old. NOT my intention. My intention in being here is simple - in order to make the best damned tie possible I need to ask the pickiest tie wearers in the world... and they hang out on forums like this. Fair enough? In return I will try to add value by answering any questions you have honestly and hopefully can provide good info.
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