Random Food Questions Thread

[itsstillmatt]

The problem with the no substitutions/no changes policy is that it is part of the greater attempt to move food from being part of our cultural experience to being an "art" for self important jerks. As part of the former it included not only what the chef/host wants to make, and exactly how he thinks it should look, but also care for the person eating, generosity, understanding etc. Just because it happens in a restaurant doesn't mean that the act of nourishing is any further removed from the experience as it is at the family table. When you have somebody over, you think of them, what they like, what they don't, and then if you find out that they are allergic to something you feel bad, even a bit embarrassed, not angry and indignant that they are not the people you think they ought to be. Restaurants obviously are a bit different in this way, but given their standing as a place for nourishment and a place for people to interact and enjoy themselves, the restaurant should do its best to accomodate this very fundamental part of being human.

I'm not sure, exactly, why this generation of cook and this generation of new diner, I assume many of them are not from families who dined out at good restaurants and likely not from families who dined together much, has somehow come on the idea that the meal is spectacle and show disassociated from human interaction. It is evident in the food, the way people talk at dinner, the willingness to justify these odd practices, the constant picture taking and blogging about meals often in ways that do nothing but display how much they don't understand the food they are praising. It is evident when, for example, you are sitting at the French Laundry and the waiter starts to go on with a canned story about how "chef" decided to serve salmon cones when he was in line at Baskin Robbins one day, and it is perhaps most evident when a ******* burger place tells you that what you eat is all about the chef's desire and not at all about yours. It is a complete break between of one of the most human actions, eating together, from anything that is remotely real and human.

TLDR version. If you buy all your friends the same gift, no matter what color they like and what size they are, you are an asshole, not a generous person involved in a dialogue.

 

[edinatlanta]



TLDR version. If you buy all your friends the same gift, no matter what color they like and what size they are, you are an asshole, not a generous person involved in a dialogue.

Exorcising some past Channukah demons, are we?

 

[Bhowie]

SAKE'S BOTTLE SIZES ACTUALLY MAKE SENSE. WINE IS WRONG!!!

 

[kwilkinson]

I guess it's just easier to bottle vodka watered down with fake floral aromas, amirite?I mean thats all sake really is.

 

[Bhowie]

But for serious Mr. Grant is correct. The wooden cup is called a masu. This however doesn't explain the odd 300 sized bottles, these range usually from 300 to 375 with 320 as the most common size. My educated guess for these bottle sizes is for economic reasons.

 

[Bhowie]

Here is a masu:

Sometimes you will see sake served with a clear glass inside of a masu. They will also pour until it overflows into the masu. This is a sign of generosity.

 

[otc]



Some good points in here if you filter out the back-patting.
http://www.opinionatedaboutdining.com/OADblog.php?ID=11494
e.g.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

One of my favorite stupid rule encounters was at the Culver City branch of the gastropub, Father’s Office. I went there especially to try their famous hamburger which they serve with blue cheese. One person in our party didn’t like blue cheese, and I was wheat gluten intolerant and blue cheese is made using rye bread. But the bartender refused to serve our burgers without the cheese telling us that our choices were limited to ordering the burger and wiping the blue cheese off, or ordering something else. Can you imagine telling someone to order something they are allergic to and telling them to wipe it off the food before eating it? It’s a law suit waiting to happen. But the ridiculousness didn’t stop there. One person asked for extra dressing for their salad and the waiter refused, and said, “we think it’s dressed perfectly."

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Can you imagine one of Damian Hirst’s assistants deciding to change one of his pieces because a potential buyer asked him to? I can imagine the exchange: “I’m sorry, tell Damian I love that dot painting, but the color palate isn’t to my liking. Would you mind changing the color for me?" Well of course that would never happen, and that’s because art deserves a certain type of respect. But steak and potatoes, at least the way it is realized at Al Forno, has nothing to do with art and is merely fancified sustenance, regardless of the egotistitical claims by its owners.

Yeah, but Damian Hirst is a douche. I had an art teacher once who had no scruples about buying a painting and then getting a little extra paint "on the side" and modifying or removing elements he disliked. Also, if you commissioned a piece, you should be able to give the artist some guidelines (and I would say that food is more like a commissioned piece while something like a pastry baked this morning would be more like a completed piece)

 

[edinatlanta]



Here is a masu:

Sometimes you will see sake served with a clear glass inside of a masu. They will also pour until it overflows into the masu. This is a sign of generosity.

I have one and I really dig drinking out of it, even if it is a bit of a pain. Also I can kinda taste the wood in my mouth when I use it. (no ****)

 

[Steve Plotnicki]

Why is it so hard to understand a place that doesn't accept subtitutions? Sang Yoon's place in Santa Monica called Father's Office doesn't allow it for their burgers. It was voted the #1 burger in America some years back and at least for me, I haven't had anything better. I think it's that good. My friend interviewed him and got some really great insight. He basically says that he designed the food to taste a certain way and if one guy came in and put a bunch of mustard on it and another person tossed on some thousand island, they would all have a different version of what he was trying to present. If you don't like it, simply don't eat there.

Since someone linked this thread to my blog I thought I would add my two cents here. Syzergy's post is too reductionist and misses the point. Of course people understand that Sang Yoon believes that his hamburgers are perfect creations and he would like to serve them that way. But what does that have to do with his refusing to make an accomodation for someone who is allergic to blue cheese? That person can't enjoy them the way Sang would like them too, so why put that person in a position of not enjoying the hamburger at all? Is Sang Yoon really saying that the hamburger is worthless without the blue cheese? That doesn't make any sense.

All rules need to have a measure of balance when they are being imposed. If you are driving at 15 miles above the speed limit and are pulled over by a police officer, if you happen to be speeding because your wife is having a baby and you are trying to get to the hospital, they will treat you differently than someone who is speeding and on his way to dinner. While that is an extreme example, the same concept works in restaurants. If a chef decides that he is going to treat people with special needs (allergies, lactose intolerant etc.) the same way he treats everyone else, I think it is fair to criticize him for doing the wrong thing because he is putting the diner in a position where they can't enjoy his food.

 

[edinatlanta]

Mr. Plotnicki allow me to welcome you by genuinely saying...

Hope you stick around...

 

[kwilkinson]

those Google alerts must come up quick these days!

 

[Steve Plotnicki]

Actually I have software that keeps track of who is sending traffic to my blog and it included a link for this site,

 

[Cary Grant]

Interview with Yoon-

http://discoverlosangeles.com/play/dining/la-chefs/that-burger-and-beyond.html

Continuing on the subject of burgers, why are you so militant about not allowing modifications? I mean, you can’t even get something left off it.
The substitution thing is really just about the fact that the first Father’s Office is tiny. The kitchen is like a phone booth. The place was never intended to be a restaurant. It’s a bar that happens to have a little food.

In fine dining restaurants we’ll do anything, bend over backwards. I felt in that environment, given that we weren’t attempting to be a be-all and end-all, I just felt like we’ll only offer a few things. It was never meant to accommodate everyone. The menu is so small. It wasn’t an ego thing.

People think it is. They take it personally.
It’s one person’s opinion about how dishes should be served. The policy is polarizing and people are opinionated about it. This just goes to prove that you can’t please everyone no matter what you do. I remember stories back at Michael’s. People would come up with their own dish then you’d put it in front of them and then they’d send it back. It doesn’t even matter what you’re willing to do. My policy is just an admission you’re never going to please everyone. I don’t think people are used to hearing no. There’s a general sense of entitlement that’s very much of a localized thing. I’ve never seen behavior like this anywhere else.

On the other hand, it would take a server a second to write on a ticket “NB” or whatever for no bun and then the kitchen could just leave off the bun.
The other problem with that is everyone would have a different experience. If you make something and if you allow changes to it, every single person who changes it has a different take. Then there’s no single way to have a consensus. This way at least people can agree or disagree and it’s genuine.

Similarly, you can’t get ketchup at Father’s Office.
Fries are Northern European. They typically come with a mayo based sauce and I wanted to serve them that way. I didn’t realize people would go ape because I don’t serve ketchup.

People bring their own right?
We don’t encourage it. But we don’t stop it. We’ve never thrown anyone out. Not for ketchup.

 

[edinatlanta]

He was kinda sorta making sense until he got to this and really proved iammatt correct.

The other problem with that is everyone would have a different experience. If you make something and if you allow changes to it, every single person who changes it has a different take. Then there’s no single way to have a consensus. This way at least people can agree or disagree and it’s genuine.

 

[Cary Grant]

I had a similar reaction, Ed.

Especially about fries.

I'll admit that I've put a lot of time into a meal for family or friends and I do get kinda offended if somebody wants to mess with it. At least TRY it first